Author Topic: Macs  (Read 28060 times)

Offline number six

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Macs
« on: July 30, 2008, 02:53:12 PM »
Just like to re-confirm that Macs are the biggest shitboxes that $3k can buy.

That is all.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 03:14:19 PM by number six »

Offline rockford

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Re: Macs
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 02:57:06 PM »
LOL - what? You aren't keen on overpriced proprietary solutions?? ;-)

I do have an AppleTV hacked to run Mythbuntu and be my dvr frontend so I'm not totally apple free, but that's mostly because I couldn't get 1080i HDMI processing for a lower price than a 199 refurbished ATV.

Offline number six

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Re: Macs
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 03:32:37 PM »
I've never really liked Apples, even back in the early 80s I recognized that the Apple II really sucked when you put it up against similiar offerings from Commodore or even Atari. However, I hadn't really spent any quality time with a Mac since the System 6 days but changing careers recently into Network Administration has changed all of that.

Currently we provide total IT for a variety of sites, many of them non-profit churches with a large number of Apples. This includes Macbooks, G4s, you name it. So having now spent a considerable amount of time with these shitboxes I can say with renewed authority on what I've thought all along - Macs are overpriced pieces of shit.

Here's some observations --

First off, who buys Macs?

Mac User 1 - The Superior Douchebag - Here's a twat that likes to be "different" (but in reality read that as "better") than other computer users. They buck the Window$ corporate ethos by taking the road less traveled. Problem is Apple is just as greedy (if not more so) and soul-less as anyone else. Smugly printing "Made in California" on every scrap of paper doesn't make a better company, it just lets them charge 3x for the same hardware as Dell only because it makes the Superior Douchebag feel super cool at Starbucks. Of course even the non-conformity bit is a joke because every site I've seen with this type of user will have a whole bevy of them because they all want to be as cool and non-conformist as everyone else. Douchebags.

Mac User 2 - The Idiot - I don't understand computers nor how they work, but the Apples are somehow better than the PCs so I want one. Nudge one of these folks about their $3k Applebook iPro Leopard 2000 and you'll quickly find out they have no fucking clue why it was worth all that extra cash other than maybe the screen was nicer than the $500 Dell sitting next to it. You get a lot of old people in this boat, probably the parents of the aformentioned douchebags.

Mac User 3 - The Desktop Publisher/Multimedia Guy - Back in 1987 the Mac was the machine for Desktop publishing, nobody is going to deny that. However, by 2008 you can pretty much do anything you want on a PC but don't tell some of these guys that. OK, I've heard Final Cut pro is decent and some of the other Mac A/V tools aren't bad so I can maybe let this guy slide, but typically only a few people at each location fall into this category yet there are many more Macs than that.

Mac User 4 - The Follower - This is like #1 but without even the stupid superiority complex or the ability to form his or her own opinions. Everyone that's cool has a Mac so I must as well. Who gives a shit if it cost more or does less.. i need one, nownownownownow!

I'm also sick to death of the 'Mac Cult' bullshit. You can't just have a Macintosh, oh no!! You've also got to have a Bumper Sticker (preferably on your VW), maybe a poster or some witty Apple cartoon on your desk.. you've definitely got an iPod attached to it and I'm seeing a lot of iPhones roaming around now. Basically if the good lord Steve Jobs places an Apple on it, you need it.. doesn't matter if its good or not, you just have to have it. You also have to tell everyone who super cool your Macbook is even as it burns the shit out of your leg because the hippies that designed it were too high on goof balls and all the wads of cash they made to notice that the damn thing overheats.

The leads us to the second big rip off, the supposed Mac Quality. Don't let anyone fool you, these things aren't super well made or reliable. Perhaps back in the glory days you could count on their build quality but for now it doesn't appear that its worth the California hippy juice that was used to make it (by way of China I'm sure). I can't tell you how many fucked up Macbook Pros i've seen, one particular model at one location just came back from its THIRD trip to that californian nirvana where superior computers are made. No sir, your $3k gets you a Laptop or a desktop slapped on a nice LCD but it does not get you any more quality than a Compaq, hell perhaps even less.

I could write 4 pages on how miserable it is to use these things. How the GUI is totally counter-intuitive or how common functions, commands or information is hidden (probably because they assume it would only confuse their users). Try to do something simple on a Mac and it quickly turns into a multi-step fiasco worthy of an 80s Sierra adventure game and one that changes with each silly named OS revision. (Oh I need to do this, well let's see am I running Leopard, Panther, Siamese Cat, T-Rex or Hippy Douche?? Damn..) It also appears that they go out of their way to make these things blow up on Windows based networks. Sure you can say 'Well thats the Microsoft Network being a piece of shit' well fine, but it doesn't change the fact that MS pretty much owns the small network landscape so you either learn to play in their sandbox or you sit with your iBook trying to figure out why the fuck you can't print anymore.

ANYWAY sorry for the rant, but in summary.. fuck apple.

OKOKOKOK Xenoina likes her iPod, i admit its slick (but still overpriced). I'm sure the AppleTVs have their uses, etc. But for the most part, fuck 'em.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 03:36:56 PM by number six »

Offline rockford

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Re: Macs
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 03:42:06 PM »
LOL....so I'm guessing this guy isn't on your Christmas card list?


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Offline number six

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Re: Macs
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 03:56:45 PM »
LOL....so I'm guessing this guy isn't on your Christmas card list?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/soyburger/209372679/in/set-72157594228629049/

That guys alright because he's got them all on a wall as decorations which seems about right.

I don't even mind the old iMacs so much, at least back then they were kinda cute, but it's gotten waaay out of hand. Especially with the move to intel hardware the prices are just silly. Marketing and style though you can't beat the Macs on, if there has ever been a 'nice' looking computer it was probably an Apple.

I admit I have a few Mac Classics which were pretty cool for the time.. but there's a big difference between 1985 and now.

Offline funky49

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Re: Macs
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2008, 10:28:58 AM »
I'd totally pay more money for good design!

Uhmmm... but not Apple money. I'm totally fine staying in the Windows World and playing with OSX via a Hackintosh (in the future).

You forgot to say how iTunes sucks. Oh, and how they solider batteries into their newest products making them non-user replaceable (easily at least). I got more life out of my iPod Mini but anything newer and you've got a headache or spend some $$ to send in your old one and get a refurb.

As far as the counter-intuitive UI... every UI has its own way of making you think.
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Offline r3zon8

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Re: Macs
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2008, 10:10:49 PM »
You cant argue the stability of osx in comparison to Windows. windows hangs more frequently than osx.

its not the hardware, macs are all based on intel reference design hardware and so are x86 at heart. You used to be able to argue that ppc>x86 when it came to macs but thats not the case anymore. they are BOTH x86, osx just does a better job at being stable, thanks mainly in part to unix.

Am i a WINDOWS(not pc, they are ALL personal computers) guy? an apple guy? *nix guy? i consider myself all of the above..i use what gets the job done quickly and efficiently.

at work, im on xp running multiple instances of xwin so that i can manage the centos boxes. email client is outlook because of tight Blackberry/Exchange integration. i spend most of my day at a #.

at home, i use a mac for browsing web(so i can go click happy on as many banners, popups, and porn as i want and not worry about malware) and the same macbook.

is the apple premium of hardware really worth it. well, theyre designed like no other machine, and with only an 8% market share theyre not exactly manufacturing at the volume that 'beige box' manuf's do and so cannot/do not enjoy those dirt cheap prices. that translates to higher prices for us. the machines are nice and with anything nice, theres always a premium.

just my 2c
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Offline number six

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Re: Macs
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 10:38:25 PM »
You cant argue the stability of osx in comparison to Windows. windows hangs more frequently than osx.

I don't know, I've seen quite a few Macs crash out or have problems. Is OSX more stable than XP? Possibly-Probably, but XP is actually pretty stable. Not that I'm going to sit here and say XP is perfect (faaaar from it) but I can't say that I haven't had too many problems with XP in general. Sure there's Microsoft stupidity here and there, but its OK. Now Vista is an entirely different story.

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its not the hardware, macs are all based on intel reference design hardware and so are x86 at heart. You used to be able to argue that ppc>x86 when it came to macs but thats not the case anymore. they are BOTH x86, osx just does a better job at being stable, thanks mainly in part to unix.

Yes and this forces one to wonder why the Apple branded hardware costs an extra $1,000. Once again, I'm sitting on my XP machine that has been up for about 3 weeks now with no problems. I haven't had a complete crash in a very long time and I can't remember the last time I saw a BSOD on my system. Not saying it's perfect but I don't have stability problems.

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at home, i use a mac for browsing web(so i can go click happy on as many banners, popups, and porn as i want and not worry about malware) and the same macbook.

Yes and you also don't have to worry about having as many software options or say any games at all, etc. etc. So I have an A/V package for my machine, no big deal. Probably haven't had a major virus infection in 3 years.. i'll trade that for the ability to run the majority of software out there and to actually have the option of playing a game if i want to.

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is the apple premium of hardware really worth it. well, theyre designed like no other machine, and with only an 8% market share theyre not exactly manufacturing at the volume that 'beige box' manuf's do and so cannot/do not enjoy those dirt cheap prices. that translates to higher prices for us. the machines are nice and with anything nice, theres always a premium.


I could build a system with pretty much identical hardware to your Mac for anywhere from $500-$1500 less than what Apple sells it for. I realize a profit needs to be made but son of a bitch. Also, don't tell me Apple doesn't get deals on bulk buys and even if they don't.. they can't figure out how to use Newegg? :) And the systems look nice they seem to have their fair share of hardware problems (if not more so than one of the big PC manufacturers).. your stable OS is useless if your hardware doesn't work!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 10:47:09 PM by number six »

Offline The Renegade

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Re: Macs
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2008, 01:44:13 PM »
You cant argue the stability of osx in comparison to Windows. windows hangs more frequently than osx.

My PC gets rebooted when the power goes out cause I'm too lazy to drag in a UPS from the garage. One of my various work PCs never gets rebooted, and has now been up for 643 days. I run a variety of processes/apps on that machine and it's doing just fine. Vista sucks, but XP is rock solid if you aren't a fool.

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Am i a WINDOWS(not pc, they are ALL personal computers) guy? an apple guy? *nix guy? i consider myself all of the above..i use what gets the job done quickly and efficiently.


I agree there. I just can't think of a use for a Mac that something else can't do just as well? I used to be a huge fan of Macs, but now I just don't see the point.

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at work, im on xp running multiple instances of xwin so that i can manage the centos boxes. email client is outlook because of tight Blackberry/Exchange integration. i spend most of my day at a #.

Unrelated, but blackberry = evil :P

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at home, i use a mac for browsing web(so i can go click happy on as many banners, popups, and porn as i want and not worry about malware) and the same macbook.

Well I don't go clicking on random links, not because I'm afraid of an attack, but that's just a waste of time. I hate using the PC when I get home so rarely want to click on random ads and crap. If you get a virus from doing so, your the idiot, not the machine you are using.

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is the apple premium of hardware really worth it. well, theyre designed like no other machine, and with only an 8% market share theyre not exactly manufacturing at the volume that 'beige box' manuf's do and so cannot/do not enjoy those dirt cheap prices. that translates to higher prices for us. the machines are nice and with anything nice, theres always a premium.

Apples look nice. :thumbup: But I think Apple still gets some steep discounts on hardware. The hardware itself isn't too unique anymore, the case is I guess, but shit, it's not even the best case desgin around. :shrug:

Just my .02 :)

Offline tktlwyr

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Re: Macs
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2008, 06:26:59 PM »
Who buys Macs?  I do.  For about 20 years now.  I learned basic programming on Apple IIe computers in high school and went with a Mac after being exposed to one in college.  My home and office both run on Mac and all my secretaries now have them at home.  Current Mac of choice are the iMacs at home and the office and my MacBook for when I need to be portable.  The most I have spent on an iMac is $1,799 for a 24" lcd 2.4 GHz Intel Core2DUO model that I can run OS X or Windows on.  The closest comparable Dell starts at $1,299 with a smaller screen and less processor.  Seeing that I can run both OSs, I can run any software that you can.  I can boot into Windows natively or via emualtion which runs at close to native speeds.

In response to what type of Mac user I am:

Superior Douchebag:  No.  I don't use WiFi at Starbucks and I'm not a noncomformist.

Idiot:  No.  I understand how it all works and can trouble shoot problems for office and family over the phone. 

Desktop Publisher/Multimedia Guy:  No.  I'm a practicing lawyer for 15 years and just because I'm a lawyer doesn't mean I'm a superior douchebag.  I'm a pretty laid back guy that enjoys pinball, martial arts, ATVs and shooting.

Follower:  No.  As I said, using Macs for 20 years.

I have no bumper stickers, posters, or cartoons.  I do have an iPhone.  It's practical for what I need and does the job much better that the smartphones I have had in the past.  As for iPods, if there were any better MP3 players on the market, I'm sure they would sell.  I'm not rushing out to buy a Zune anytime soon.  Hey, I'm a poet and didn't know it!

A lot of Windows users have difficulty solving problems and don't understand how computers work, too.  It doesn't make them idiots.  Maybe you're too smart to see that most of the average users and below can't troubleshoot their own problems, whether it's a Mac or a Windows box.  Tech schools were pushing Microsoft "Certification" hard a few years ago.  It probably explains why guys like you have jobs and hate Macs.  I get the same comments from the IT guys who come in to our office to service the PC crowd.  Most Mac owners I know never need an IT guy so they don't make money off of us and we suck because of it. 

The build quality is the same as any computer, some will last forever, some will be lemons.  What failed?  Was it an Apple part or was it a Western Digital hard drive?  The parts aren't made by Apple, they're made for Apple.  Just like Dell parts are made for Dell.

The GUI is far from counter-intuitive.  Do you know where Windows came from?  They copied it from Apple.  APPLE COMPUTER, INC. v. MICROSOFT CORP., 35 F.3d 1435 (9th Cir. 1994) (Sorry, it's the lawyer in me).  The common functions, commands or information are NOT hidden.  Most menu items have shortcuts listed when you click on the menu.  Hey, just like Windows (which was just like the Mac OS from 20 years ago)!  If your talking about a command line interface, how many users actually use that anyway?  As for Microsoft "owning" the small network landscape, is it really MS or is it the hardware providers?  I've never had problems with networks, my Macs have pretty much been plug and play (or WiFi).  I can print to their networks or mine (assuming I have the correct driver installed).

I'm just wondering what type of misfortune you had or what problem you couldn't figure out that brought your rant on.  It's like someone pissed on your CornFlakes or something.  Just because you don't understand it or can't figure it out, doesn't make it bad.

That's my counter-rant.

Non-superior douchebag, idiot, desktop publisher/multimedia guy, follower out.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 07:30:21 PM by tktlwyr »
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Re: Macs
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2008, 07:16:35 PM »
I only use mac's.
I had pc's, new ones for My guy's with extended warranties (thank god!) and they would break,crash, fill up with viruses ect.
I canceled that plan after problems with the third one being just as the first,junk. They were a Sony, a Dell and a HP.
I have 5 macs right now which 3 are for My business  Two are from the 90's that just won't die that My 5 year old and Wife use and the still work and look as new. I do graphics,photography,video,ad layouts ect so I use them creatively which is Apple's true niche market. Pro macs come built already not needing video cards, this and that and everything else. Plus all mac's come with great software that You can do almost anything with. If You have the chance to use one and really get familiar with what they come with then You'll understand why they are worth it. If You just need something to check email with then You don't need one but if Your like Me ,always creating something then mac's are an invaluable tool. I have owned 19 new macs in My life and have never had one break , ever. Not trying to be a dick but that says a ton. I don't own an Iphone but I do think they are pretty impressive in every way. Apple design is ahead of the curve, I guess thats why You see a million ipod copys,iphone copys,MacBook copys ect.
Just Sayin..

Offline number six

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Re: Macs
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2008, 10:07:29 PM »
A lot of Windows users have difficulty solving problems and don't understand how computers work, too.  It doesn't make them idiots.  Maybe you're too smart to see that most of the average users and below can't troubleshoot their own problems, whether it's a Mac or a Windows box.  Tech schools were pushing Microsoft "Certification" hard a few years ago.  It probably explains why guys like you have jobs and hate Macs.  I get the same comments from the IT guys who come in to our office to service the PC crowd.  Most Mac owners I know never need an IT guy so they don't make money off of us and we suck because of it. 

Hahahaha good one. I've actually been using computers long before Windows was even a thought but good try. I actually haven't been a big fan of the Macs since I first started messing with them back in the late 80s but haven't really garnered the amount of dislike I currently have until this last few generations. I'm glad all your Mac friends are computer saavy, my experience has been different with the Mac people being even more clueless than the Windows people (which is sometimes rather difficult!).

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The build quality is the same as any computer, some will last forever, some will be lemons.  What failed?  Was it an Apple part or was it a Western Digital hard drive?  The parts aren't made by Apple, they're made for Apple.  Just like Dell parts are made for Dell.

Yes, but Dell doesn't charge an extra $1,000 for the same parts.

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[The GUI is far from counter-intuitive.  Do you know where Windows came from?  They copied it from Apple.  APPLE COMPUTER, INC. v. MICROSOFT CORP., 35 F.3d 1435 (9th Cir. 1994) (Sorry, it's the lawyer in me).  The common functions, commands or information are NOT hidden.  Most menu items have shortcuts listed when you click on the menu.  Hey, just like Windows (which was just like the Mac OS from 20 years ago)!  If your talking about a command line interface, how many users actually use that anyway?  As for Microsoft "owning" the small network landscape, is it really MS or is it the hardware providers?  I've never had problems with networks, my Macs have pretty much been plug and play (or WiFi).  I can print to their networks or mine (assuming I have the correct driver installed).

Do you know where Apple got the idea from? I believe all GUIs owe a little something to Xerox, look it up. (sorry it's the historian in me :))

And Just because OS X is a GUI doesn't mean it's intuitive.

Did Microsoft rip off Apple? Sure did, but i'm not here defending Microsoft.. fuck them too! :) My biggest problem with the big "M" right now is I actually think they're trying to ape Apple again which is causing all these overly fruity and silly new versions of Windows and Office which are "too stylish" for their own good. The new version of Office is a perfect example of style over function. Many features are needlessly hard to get at.. but I guess it's prettier?

Microsoft might not be the zenith of design but at least if you drag and drop something usually that works. With apple its hold down this button while dropping that after you've enabled something else depending on which OS release your on. And actually OS X does have a CLI for what, the first time in Apple's history which is helpful but that's only because of it's platform. Back in the old System days it was a real pain not having any CLI to fall back on if you needed to do some batch commands or something. The Atari ST and the Amiga both were good enough to build one in not sure why Apple never did..

And yes. Most of your small networks (that are actually big enough to be domain networks we're not talking 3 computers and a printer here) run Microsoft Server, so for better or worse Microsoft does own the landscape in most cases. Apples also are definitely not just 'plug in play' on a Windows domain, not if you want access to the shares and such properly anyway. Sometimes it works, sometimes it requires some tweaking but I've never seen one integrate in any way shape or form that i'd call 'easy' or 'painless'.

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I'm just wondering what type of misfortune you had or what problem you couldn't figure out that brought your rant on.  It's like someone pissed on your CornFlakes or something.  Just because you don't understand it or can't figure it out, doesn't make it bad.

That's my counter-rant.

I haven't had an Apple problem I haven't been able to fix as of yet, I'm just always suprised about how much of a pain in the ass it is to get these things to do simple things is. I probably did go a little crazy but that's what BBSs are for! :)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 12:11:21 AM by number six »

Offline number six

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Re: Macs
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2008, 10:11:25 PM »
I don't own an Iphone but I do think they are pretty impressive in every way. Apple design is ahead of the curve, I guess thats why You see a million ipod copys,iphone copys,MacBook copys ect.
Just Sayin..

Apple has the design down, they've also got the best marketing in computer history. You definitely can't take that away from them. They've built up a brand that they can get away charging a hell of a lot for, problem is if you look under the hood of almost any of their products its hard to justify the cash. Pretty much it's about the Style and you have to know if your going to buy an Apple product a significant amount of your cash is going to having a cool case or good marketing. In some cases that's OK, on the iPod front having the most popular device means you can pretty much find any accessory you want, etc. On the flip side you can get an MP3 player that does more, probably sounds better and has more storage for significantly less but it depends on what you want.

I've looked at the iPhone, the new ones at $200 seem reasonable but the $600 unit was just insane. That's pure hype there, but if they can get away with it god bless 'em I guess.. but at the end of the day my $70 LG phone actually does more stuff.. but its definitely not as 'cool'

Offline number six

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Re: Macs
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2008, 11:20:58 PM »
Alright, alright it's been pointed out that maybe I was an asshole on that Mac post. You know what, probably. I'm not going to take it back (Macs are still overpriced shitboxes) but to be fair here let's offend everyone:

Common Windows/PC Users

The Idiot: At least the Mac "idiot" class users care enough about computing to spend $3k. If you really want the blank stare and strange object that runs on magic, find an idiot PC user. These are the schmucks that send money to dead african generals and keep those phishing scams going. Make sure their anti-virus is up to date and god help them if they ever wander into the control panel.

The I think I know what i'm doing but don't dipshit: There's a ton of PC people out there that think they have a handle on the whole thing, well.. they've watched all those Computer Professor discs anyway. "Oh I can fix your problem!" they confidently say right before they fuck up the registry so bad that anything less of a complete rebuild is a waste of time. These are actually the most dangerous dickwads on the network as a little knowledge mixed with a lot if ignorance can cause all sorts of problems. If there's an argument for restricting local admin rights, it's this dickbag.

The Gaming Douche: While the PC crowd doesn't have the 'cult' phenomenon in general, some of the gamers come close. These are the asses that always have to have the latest $700 video card and will constantly tell you how many FPS they get and how console gaming is for losers. Of coarse staying on top of the PC gaming curb will cost you as much as the 'other guys' and what you won't hear is that many of the most power hungry games are actually mediocre. These are the dicks that keep the $5,000 PC manufactuers in business that mostly like to spray paint skulls on cases.

The tweaker: These are the overclockers, the tweakers, the people that can't leave shit alone. Now, a little overclocking never hurt anyone and it can be a good way to suck more power out of cheaper hardware. But when you start spending $500 on fans and shit so your $200 processor can clock as fast as a $400 one, you've got a problem. These are the goofballs that will constantly boast how they've clocked this to 40% over spec but fail to mention that the end result is about as stable as britney spears.

The disco case mod bastard: There's a whole section for these hosers down at CompUSA. If you can stick a neon or an LED fan in it, they've done it.. twice. The invention of the 'window case' blew up an entire industry. Having 9 LED Alien head fans is on the start for these PC Ravers. At least some of them go on to splice systems into cool stuff like Liquor Bottles or something, that's at least nifty. But son of a bitch, if you can spin your PC from the ceiling and recreate a light show, you've gone too far. It's a machine for god's sake.

The lazy whiny bitch: Here's the Windows user that knows it sucks, but uses it anyway. But these bitches can't suffer in silence, oh no they have to bitch about how much Microsoft sucks. Unlike the Linux Asshole (tm) they are too lazy to actually use something different though so the whining is just for the sake of whining. This is me!!! I'm too lazy and like mainstream software!! but i also like to complain!

The Microsoft Supporter: This is a pretty rare breed, but there are the apologists. The few that believe Microsoft really has the answers, and that Vista was a good platform from the start. Nevermind any of the massive problems out there, no sir Microsoft is Mother, Microsoft is father. The only saving grace here is they don't bother to print Windows Logo bumper stickers outside of Washington state, so there's not much they can do about it.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 11:49:57 PM by number six »

Offline tktlwyr

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  • Location: Pembroke Pines, FL
  • Posts: 2519
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Re: Macs
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2008, 12:22:24 AM »
LOL

(posted from my MacBook as I take a dump)
David Paz
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