Macs

[funky49]

[funky49]

You cant argue the stability of osx in comparison to Windows. windows hangs more frequently than osx.

I have an older P4 pc /w 512megs of ram. It ran Pro Tools LE more stable than my friend's brand new Mac Mini running Pro Tools LE with 512megs of ram. Once he upgraded to 2gig, the Mini became a BEAST but I was disappointed with the frequency of reboots he had to do /w 512megs of ram. Maybe he did some tweaks or something with the ram upgrade, but that's an apples-to-apples comparison (same ram, same application)

Aqua is nice. 24" Apple Cimema displays are beautiful. The pricing is way off on their gear. (I'd complain about games but I don't game on the pc anymore).

[funky49]

LOL!!!!

My fav comments were "stable as Brittany Spears" and "PC raver"

[tktlwyr]

I agree with the fact that Apple in the past has always shorted people with their initial ram offerings and their "installed" ram prices are exorbitant.  512Mb is barely enough to run the OS since they switched to OS X.  At least in the last year they have been providing more ram out of the box.

[funky49]

I agree with the fact that Apple in the past has always shorted people with their initial ram offerings and their "installed" ram prices are exorbitant.  512Mb is barely enough to run the OS since they switched to OS X.  At least in the last year they have been providing more ram out of the box.

Which is more normal for Apple, a positive on some their gear is that it is kinda like living in the future. Some things appear on Apple first standard and are jacked by others.

(too bad I'm so not an early adopter)

[Baiter]

I've spent a lot of years thinking about this, and here's where we are now.

1. Yes, Macs have ALWAYS been more expensive than anything else on the market.  They've always been a little ahead of the curve from a UI perspective though.

2. Today, the reason they are more expensive is because they ONLY offer the latest hardware (e.g., the latest processors from Intel are always 4x the cost of something that's been out for a year).  In other words, you go spec for spec with another vendor and you won't be more than a few hundred off.

I've used Windows consistently since v1 (well ok 3.1 was the first useful Windows OS).  As a computer guy by trade and by hobby, I will say that any Unix derivative is a more efficient operating system to use for both servers and for desktops, so I'm all in favor of people trying anything but Windows, even if it costs a bit more. 

Having said that, I've never owned a Mac.  I'd rather buy a Thinkpad (the highest rated notebook on the planet) and put Ubuntu on it (or just choose their SUSE option), and save $1000.  I hate to pay extra for hardware you don't need (or can wait a few months for prices to be cut in half), but I can't knock people who buy Macs today.  Apple is progressive with their move to a BSD derived OS, and Microsoft operating systems are extremely dated at this point, and their approach to security is laughable.  Unlike 5 years ago, there's no reason people have to run Windows today, so I'm glad to see people making an effort to choose an alternative

[Niloc]

The GUI is far from counter-intuitive.  Do you know where Windows came from?  They copied it from Apple.  APPLE COMPUTER, INC. v. MICROSOFT CORP., 35 F.3d 1435 (9th Cir. 1994) (Sorry, it's the lawyer in me).  The common functions, commands or information are NOT hidden.  Most menu items have shortcuts listed when you click on the menu.  Hey, just like Windows (which was just like the Mac OS from 20 years ago)!  If your talking about a command line interface, how many users actually use that anyway?  As for Microsoft "owning" the small network landscape, is it really MS or is it the hardware providers?  I've never had problems with networks, my Macs have pretty much been plug and play (or WiFi).  I can print to their networks or mine (assuming I have the correct driver installed).

They both stole it from Xerox;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_GUI

Note how much the Xerox Star resembles the old black & white Mac OS.

[Niloc]

It's the software that annoys me.

Close all the Windows in Mac OS (either old or current versions) - the program is still running. You've got to close it with the pulldown menu or a key combo. Annoying as hell. I just want my computer to OBEY. Instantly. Without question (the without question part is also a major problem with Vista).

iTunes - it stops updating podcasts whenever it feels like it. What? NEVER stop downloading them unless I SPECIFCALLY tell you to dammit! Nope, no way to change this as far as I've found. So um, hey Apple, why are you making this decision for me? Oh, because a lot of your users are actually pinheads (even though they consider themselves techies). That's understandable, but where is the "I"m not actually a pinhead" setting? Oh... there isn't one. So it's just a foregone conclusion that ALL your users are pinheads.

There are a lot of things like that. It's just the "Apple knows best" attitude, and instead of being able to configure things to work the way you want them to, a lot of the time you have to learn how to do them the "Apple way" instead, which you know, is really how you should have been doing things all along. You may have thought you wanted to do them another way, but no, actually you were wrong.

The "Apple way" of doing things is very good sometimes, but when it doesn't jibe with what I want to do it's freaking annoying. With Windows there always seems to be a tweak, or an option, or a different piece of software that does work the way I want it to. Little to no credit to Microsoft there though, as it's almost always 3rd party stuff.


The hardware I don't give 2 shits about - it's overpriced, you're paying for design and brand name, it's not any more (or less) reliable than Dell, it's not so outrageously overpriced as it used to be, at least for the low end stuff. I'll consider getting a low-end Macbook next time I need a laptop (I don't need a lot of power in a portable), but it'd have to dual-boot with Windows. On the other hand if I'm going to over-pay for a notebook I may as well get another Fujitsu - those really are more reliable than your average cheap notebook. Actually made in Japan... ooohhh shiny!

[Niloc]

Well I don't go clicking on random links, not because I'm afraid of an attack, but that's just a waste of time. I hate using the PC when I get home so rarely want to click on random ads and crap. If you get a virus from doing so, your the idiot, not the machine you are using.

Yes. This.

I've NEVER gotten a virus on any of my Windows systems. I don't run an anti-virus either and never have. When I do an OS install I generally run all the updates, Spyware Blaster (preventative, not an active scanner), the basic Windows firewall and a few port-closing programs. That and using Firefox rather than IE (in past few years) and I've never had a problem. I've downloaded a couple things that were infected but never ran them - generally I was suspicious and either deleted them or ran them by http://www.virustotal.com/ to be sure.

Every time I've had weird PC behaviour and gone into overdrive thinking I did get infected with something all the scans came up clean and it always just turned out to be a hardware problem or a bug in some of the software I was using. Generally a few updates, possibly some firmware or a new BIOS and it's gone.

Had a weird one just recently, apparently NVidia chipsets, particularly the 680i, don't play well with SATA optical drives. Particularly strange as it worked fine for months before acting up. Caused all kinds of random lockups in Windows. Purely a screwy hardware compatibility thing, after researching it I moved the drive to another port and bingo, no more problems.

The only virii I've ever gotten were back on my Amiga, so... pre 1992? Boot sector stuff on FLOPPY discs.


That's not to say that people shouldn't run an anti-virus on Windows, I sure as hell install one on my Mom's computer (she has a penchant for opening random email attachments), but it's not nearly the problem people make it out to be.

For experienced users it's really not an issue. Make backups (you'd have to do this anyway due to hardware failures, even if virii didn't exist, you even have to do it on the Mac!), be prepared to do an OSRI if something catostrophic happens, that's just life.

[Niloc]

Apple Cimema displays are beautiful. The pricing is way off on their gear. (I'd complain about games but I don't game on the pc anymore).

The LCD panels in those are the same as in Dell displays (and others), literally the exact same parts straight from Asia, so you're paying purely for the Apple logo and shiny bezel in that case. Even a lot of Apple people don't buy Apple monitors.

[xenoina]

The disco case mod bastard: There's a whole section for these hosers down at CompUSA. If you can stick a neon or an LED fan in it, they've done it.. twice. The invention of the 'window case' blew up an entire industry. Having 9 LED Alien head fans is on the start for these PC Ravers. At least some of them go on to splice systems into cool stuff like Liquor Bottles or something, that's at least nifty. But son of a bitch, if you can spin your PC from the ceiling and recreate a light show, you've gone too far. It's a machine for god's sake.

Pretty funny coming from the guy who had a disco ball and light in his "window case"

[number six]

Which is more normal for Apple, a positive on some their gear is that it is kinda like living in the future. Some things appear on Apple first standard and are jacked by others.

(too bad I'm so not an early adopter)

Is it like living in a better future, or a nightmare though

But yes, people do steal from Apple quite a bit, but considering how much I don't really care for the OS X look or feel it's really starting to piss me off that Microsoft is trying to rip that off. So in essence we're getting a rip off of something that kinda sucks to begin with. I wish they'd just stick with their own style which may have been "boring" but it works and isn't overly fruity. The people that really really appreciate fruity displays already have apples.

[number six]

1. Yes, Macs have ALWAYS been more expensive than anything else on the market.  They've always been a little ahead of the curve from a UI perspective though.

Well that might have been true back in the late-80s/early-90s but I don't really care for the later versions of System and i'm not really sure if I'd say it was ahead of the curve, maybe slicker looking.. but easier to use (if you know what your doing)? Not in my opinion. Have you ever spent some quality time with OS X? It looks AWESOME but it's just a pain in the ass to use. At the end of the day I just want a simple clean interface, I don't need a bunch of bullshit. Hell, I don't even like the stock XP GUI settings at all and usually run everything in 'classic' mode.

Today, the reason they are more expensive is because they ONLY offer the latest hardware (e.g., the latest processors from Intel are always 4x the cost of something that's been out for a year).  In other words, you go spec for spec with another vendor and you won't be more than a few hundred off.

Whoooah where are you getting this from? The hardware in their Macs is typically the same stuff you'll find in a Dell that costs about half as much. They jack up the price because of their marketing and perceived image quality not because of what's actually in the case. You'll always end up spending considerably more for Hardware if it has an Apple logo on it! It's even more true today when they're using the same Intel hardware as everyone else. At least back in the PPC days they could claim it was a different platform.

I've used Windows consistently since v1 (well ok 3.1 was the first useful Windows OS).  As a computer guy by trade and by hobby, I will say that any Unix derivative is a more efficient operating system to use for both servers and for desktops, so I'm all in favor of people trying anything but Windows, even if it costs a bit more. 

Windows 3.0 could play a .ROL and dial out at the same time dammit, that was sorta useful even if it took up 70% of your Hard Drive. Let's face it, Windows isn't efficient. In fact, I don't think I'd use anything less than Bloatware with it. However, you can get a fairly powerful Dell for $300 and it will run XP pretty well and stable. That said it also gives you access to 90+% of all software out there without any fuss. If I was ever going to "buck the system" and go with an alternative I'd much rather grab a copy of Unbuntu or something that would also run just fine on that $300 Dell (or for me that Computer I built) instead of having to bend over and spend up to a thousand more on an Apple. Besides greater hardware efficiency etc. is kinda worthless if you don't have any software to run on it. If you strip XP down to just the essentials a Pentium III can browse the web on it just fine.

Having said that, I've never owned a Mac.  I'd rather buy a Thinkpad (the highest rated notebook on the planet) and put Ubuntu on it (or just choose their SUSE option), and save $1000.  I hate to pay extra for hardware you don't need (or can wait a few months for prices to be cut in half), but I can't knock people who buy Macs today.  Apple is progressive with their move to a BSD derived OS, and Microsoft operating systems are extremely dated at this point, and their approach to security is laughable.  Unlike 5 years ago, there's no reason people have to run Windows today, so I'm glad to see people making an effort to choose an alternative

I'll agree on the Thinkpad, that's by far the best Laptop line out there (or at least it was). Still a bit too expensive for me to have a new one.. but I have an older Thinkpad I still use because it's pretty rock solid despite being really out of date at this point. As for having no reason to run Microsoft I still disagree. If there was a viable alternative (that wasn't OSX which I really, really hate) I'd be all over it. But as it stands most of what I use my home PC for revolves around software that would be difficult (or impossible) to replace on a different OS. I know the Linux distros have come a long way but I don't think I'm ready to seriously consider switching to one yet.

[number six]

They both stole it from Xerox;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_GUI

Note how much the Xerox Star resembles the old black & white Mac OS.

Most Mac People are quick to point out the Microsoft rip off thing, but have NO idea that Apple (and Microsoft and everyone else) ripped off Xerox first. Of course I do think Microsoft then ripped off Apple's rip off after that.. but whatever. Neither one gets GUI credit in my book.

Also I believe Steve Jobs to be an even bigger prick-asshole than Bill Gates. I still get pissed everytime I hear that story about how Steve Jobs contracted with Atari to reduce the chips on 'Breakout' then handed the work off to Woz agreeing to split the profits. But of course he lied about what Atari was paying him so Woz (who did all the work) only got a small percentage of the actual money. What a prick! Woz is the true hero behind apple and the guy I have a lot of respect for.

[number six]

That's not to say that people shouldn't run an anti-virus on Windows, I sure as hell install one on my Mom's computer (she has a penchant for opening random email attachments), but it's not nearly the problem people make it out to be.

For experienced users it's really not an issue. Make backups (you'd have to do this anyway due to hardware failures, even if virii didn't exist, you even have to do it on the Mac!), be prepared to do an OSRI if something catostrophic happens, that's just life.

That's another thing, there's this general conception that all PCs are just wastelands of Spyware and Virii. I'm not saying I don't see the odd Virus and a decent amount of Spyware.. but it's mostly the fault of the user. Most of the craaazy Spyware infections I've seen are a result of somebody visiting a lot of websites they shouldn't. (ie ones ending in .RU). On my personal system I haven't had a virus in years (and last time I got one it was because I went somewhere stupid) and almost no real spyware problems (once again because I don't go to stupid places). I do still run a virus scanner (just in case) but it's no big deal. It's not like there's this on going battle between me and the forces of evil or anything. For the most part everything works pretty OK. The last time I had any serious stability problems was all due to Vista (which is another story).