The Village BBS
Florida Arcade and Pinball Collectors => Florida Arcade and Pinball Collectors => Topic started by: pinballcorpse on June 03, 2019, 10:31:20 AM
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We are coming up on Point Monsters, one of my favorite tournaments.
Why is it one of my favorites?
Aside from competing for the coveted monster trophies and banner, the real reason is because I am addicted to the qualifying portion. It is my favorite part of pinball tourneys.
Point Monsters along with the FPF main and classics offer one of the few chances out of 100+ tourneys offered in our state for a player make real time qualifying decisions.
The ongoing trend for most tourneys held over the past few years is the X strikes, or match play style. In that format the games are chosen at random, the players chosen at random, the order is chosen at random; in other words, a lot of things are left up to chance and the computer’s decisions.
In those formats, not everyone plays the same games or opponents. Sometimes players get paired with a repeat string of games or opponents. It is a very attractive format for TDs and players due to the randomness, but I feel there are just too many strategic variables taken away from the player.
To the “That’s Pinball†crowd, no, that’s mostly software.
In Point Monsters and the few others of its style, there is a bank of qualifying machines everyone must play. Players have to make choices as to which set of games to play in order to achieve the best qualifying score. Players have to figure out time management. Players have to figure out how much to push risk and reward during qualifying. Players have to monitor other players and how others’ decisions are affecting their own standings. All of this is to figure out how to make it to the dance.
In other words, there is a strategic element to qualifying. That is what appeals to me.
We all have heard Steve Ritchie’s games tell us “Play Betterâ€. How about we also consider “Play Smarterâ€
Ok, enough of the philosophic discussion. How does the everyday strikes player approach Point Monsters?
Game Choice
There will be 12 games this year. 4 EM, 4 SS, 4 DMD. A player must play 8. There will be 2 games required from each era for 6/8 games. The remaining 2 are player choice.
You only keep your best score, void those you don’t want.
Every player can play as much as they want for the same fixed entry fee. So have at it.
Start off with the 8 games you think you feel most comfortable with. Just pick. Keep every score. There is no need to void anything since there is no penalty for keeping a score (PAPA style is a different beast, and different topic).
(The only reason to void a first score is vanity and pride. Nothing else. There is never a penalty for keeping a score. Yes, you and everyone watching knows you can do better, but the seed will grow. Just think of it as a placeholder. It’s always better to have something there than nothing. Long time readers may know of my TSPP story from years ago. That convinced me-Always keep game one score)
After the first 8 game cycle (assuming you played all eras), you will have generated your first composite score, somewhere between 0 and 800 points.
You have also learned something about your game choices and how they play. Make notes of this. Do they play fast, slow, how were the rules modified, do the flippers feel good, are the shots and feeds doing what you expect?
There will be 4 games you have not played. Play them. Get a feel for how they handle. You may find that some of these games are actually better choices than what you initially thought.
Now you have planted a seed on every game. Figure out where you think you can make the scores grow. Remember, only your single best score counts, so anything that beats your previous score is a keeper.
Time Management
There is a fixed amount of qualifying time, but there is plenty of it. You will get to play a lot of pinball. As the event goes on, look at the queues of people in games. Games that are long playing will give you fewer opportunities to qualify. It is better to play more games and get more experience and tries.
The exception to the “play more†strategy is if you strongly feel by waiting on a game that you are comfortable with that you will improve your qualifying rank.
Risk Reward Approach
The first game you play will always be the “planting seed†game. (Remember, keep it). Whatever you score on it will generate an individual score between 0 and 100. There is no rush to go for the wizard mode on game one, or set up the perfect scoring combo. You will have other chances to do that.
The first game is to get comfortable with the shots and feeds. The subsequent games are for getting creative and daring.
Establish your qualifying foundation first and then work on solidifying it. You will develop a learning curve as will everyone else. It is very interesting to watch the scores improve.
Monitoring Others
The ranking scores for every game will be posted. You will see where you stand compared to others. As the day goes on, monitor the scores on each game and if you need to play it, ask yourself how to achieve that score.
Remember you don’t need a GC, you are trying to achieve scores that improve your standing.
If you are already one of the top 8 scores on a game, it is probably not necessary at this juncture to keep trying to play that particular game unless you feel this is the only way to improve.
The key is to look at your lowest qualifying scores of your set and see if you can improve there.
Keep in mind that your top 8 ranked games may fluctuate based on what others are doing.
If there are 16 players that advance, look at the composite score for player 16. Since there are 8 games, divide that by 8. That will tell you on average what ranking you need per game. Say it is 648. That you means you need, on average, an 81 per game.
So if for example, the scoring is 100, 95, 92, 91, 90,..., 81 is 14th place. Therefore your goal is one of the top 14 scores per game.
Using the DTM software
The tourney will probably use the DTM software. This is the gold standard for this type of event. You can see all of your stats and others’ stats, how often you play, and use it to self queue. You are in charge of where you go and when you go. It is awesome.
Final Remarks
While I personally approach tourney pinball very analytically, I do enjoy myself. People say match play is more fun and social. In some aspects maybe, but who and when you get to socialize with is often determined by the software.
In an unlimited qualifying format, you hang out with who you want, play when you want, eat when you want, take a nap when you want etc. Remember, the queueing software is your friend!
Having fun is what you make of the situation :)
Good Skill to everyone at Point Monsters this coming weekend!
Jeff
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i honestly hate match play :P
so, not sure where who says its more fun and social.
the one method i like the most, is qualifying.. but you ONLY get to play once, that's it. whoever has the most points, wins..
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The limited qualifying format is gaining popularity. TPF uses it. 20 tickets for best 8 games. Not strictly one and done, but for all intents and purposes, WAY different than unlimited qualifying.
I think it is more of a function of how to get 160 players to qualify in time and allow for time to enjoy the show.
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As a beginner and an eventual futur tourneys participant, I think I would prefer to go this way to begin in tourneys. Even if it seems more complexe, you have the ability to discover the tables, to stay more in your comfort zone in term of tables and maybe correct some mystakes. As it less punishing and random, and also less brutal in terme of learning experience, it sounds like an easier way to start the competition.
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Yes.
I think of it as two tourneys.
1) Qualifying
2) Finals
With this format everyone can keep playing as often as they choose in qualifying and yes, learn the games. There is satisfaction watching your progress, regardless of skill level.
There is no risk of 3 games, 3 strikes, thank you, drive through.
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Every format has his own touch of challenge and I love all of them.
play better !!!
everybody knows.
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Every format has his own touch of challenge and I love all of them.
play better !!!
everybody knows.
True. They all have their own nuances. I will admit there are some I enjoy much more than others :)
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Thanks, Jeff. I am going to plug the first Pinball Dudes Wednesday Night League tournament here. We are going to do "Flip Frenzy" (aka "Pinball! Pinball! Pinball!"). Different strategy required, and it will be like a really truncated Herb-style - more about time management than strategy, but if you play consistently well you are going to be rewarded. Consistently poor players will be punished.
Granted, in this format you will not get to pick your game. (It will depend on where you are in the queue.) But when you play a game you have to play well quickly - what shots get you to the fastest victory? And if you are losing you are going to have to decide whether trying to make a comeback is worth it or whether you should cut your losses and move on to the next challenge.
Strikes formats and I have never had a great relationship. I went to Randy's house and was done in an hour. No fun. If you are going to play pinball, you need to play a lot. That's why FPF and Point Monster's are good tournaments. If you did not make the playoffs you have no one to blame but you.
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Thanks, Jeff. I am going to plug the first Pinball Dudes Wednesday Night League tournament here. We are going to do "Flip Frenzy" (aka "Pinball! Pinball! Pinball!"). Different strategy required, and it will be like a really truncated Herb-style - more about time management than strategy, but if you play consistently well you are going to be rewarded. Consistently poor players will be punished.
Granted, in this format you will not get to pick your game. (It will depend on where you are in the queue.) But when you play a game you have to play well quickly - what shots get you to the fastest victory? And if you are losing you are going to have to decide whether trying to make a comeback is worth it or whether you should cut your losses and move on to the next challenge.
Strikes formats and I have never had a great relationship. I went to Randy's house and was done in an hour. No fun. If you are going to play pinball, you need to play a lot. That's why FPF and Point Monster's are good tournaments. If you did not make the playoffs you have no one to blame but you.
Ok on the plug :)
Hope it goes well for you guys.
I've had success and failures in all styles of tourneys in my "competitive pinball career". As I stated earlier, there are some formats that I prefer over others. No particular format is perfect however. :)
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To clarify, this topic was not meant as format A is better than B.
Tournament Pinball has had a massive influx of new players, and almost every single Florida tourney is a strikes format or some derivative, so the chances are that style of tourney is all they have been exposed to.
This was meant to help explain how to approach a tourney like Point Monsters which is WAY different than a strikes or matchplay format.
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It's most appreciated Jeff. I forwarded the info to Alex, since he doesn't have as much experience with this type format as a strikes format.
Thanks!
Louis
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Very helpful, thanks Jeff
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Great insight, has the rules and games been posted yet? Curious about playing for a bye and front seat on the bus!
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Was just posted if your on Facebook?
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Great insight, has the rules and games been posted yet? Curious about playing for a bye and front seat on the bus!
This is the link David posted
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p15guptfldrdwd8/2019AsylumPointMonstersRules.pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR1kFq-azW5OjiRhjuvJiAVA_UDyDUTaE9WKm6caEn9AhHA3GqDqCp3o0h4
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I agree.
Though I still have fun with the Strike style, I often start cold and risk getting strikes early and with long drives just to get there on time I dont feel warmed up with the given practice times. But yeah everybody knows, play better!
Qualifying is awesome. I caught the tournament bug during Cafe One’s Iron Maiden launch party and loved following my progress on the 2 lcd screens they had as they were constantly updated and the data compiled. I got there late and didnt qualify that day but TNA was pumping its audio and it was an intense competitive atmosphere. A top player I follow got there even later than I did and qualified with ease. I made up a side tournament in my head against him on my fav game, Whirlwind and learned even more about a game I thought I had mastered as he smoked my score.
More recently at their Sword of Rage launch tourny qualifying reigned again and I got in the finals. It was a personal victory. Didnt qualify til the last hour but i knew exactly what i needed to do and got the scores i needed. It was a rush. There were a handful of really good players vying for that last spot so I felt well accomplished. Next step for me is to keep that intensity level up, and maybe not eat a burger before finals begin lol i was 3 strikes and swept out.
Glad you posted this thread. I am hooked on how it all works and like all styles. A style I also really liked was at Retro Jax’s main tourny where you get to accumulate points in ea round. Felt like a strike/qualify hybrid. Now i am trying to think of a way to get to this Points Monsters grrr!
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Another quick edit.
The official rules have announced that the scoring is 100, 90, 85, 84, 83....(There is no fixed rule for this, and various tourneys have experimented with different systems)
The same principle discussed above applies for calculating position, but the math is different.
Divide the composite score, say it is 640, by 8 for this case because 8 games count.
640/8= 80 points average per game, or 8th place average per game. Note that starting at 3rd place, the point and place always add to 88.
So if your composite score is 560, you are at 70 points average per game or 18th place. Since top 16 advance, you probably will need to find a couple areas to improve to make it to finals.
The specific math can vary, this is a guideline for deciding what to do.
Alternatively just kill every game and you are in ;)
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Using actual data now: We can see the 16th qualifier was 610 points. This means that to qualify a player needed to average 610/8 ~ just over 76 points on all 8 games. This is an average of 12th best score per game. (You can go back to your online scores and see the points + place = 88 guideline for 3rd place and beyond)
The reason the number is not averaging 16th per game to make top 16 is because there are more games available than needed to qualify. If there were exactly 8 games in the bank, then the average would work out to approximately 16th because there is a one to one relationship between the games and ranks.
On the subject of considering qualifying and finals as two tourneys, it almost worked out that how people qualified in the top 16 ended up being how they finished in the actual finals. Doesn’t typically work out that way, though. I can certainly recall tourneys where I was top seed and played awful in finals and conversely qualifying low and finishing high. It happens. That’s why we have finals.
Another key takeaway is this: look at the history of the best players. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY destroys every game, every time and puts up a huge score. It simply is not possible. The better players will typically prevail in the long run, and learn the game as they go. Everybody has a chance to have a breakout game and that might be the game that helps propels you into the final 16.
I’m sure those in attendance experienced the concept of “void and re-queueâ€. After a tourney, looking back sometimes you find your best games happen early. For me from 9-midnight on Saturday was fruitless. I was trying to move into a higher seed from 8th, but could not manage it. I was exhausted. I should have stopped and gotten some rest. (Lesson-playing tired is not a good idea. Still trying to keep this in mind this after 10 years.
I was not in danger of not qualifying, but I wanted to improve to top 4. In fact we see that with many players jockeying. Those just shy of 16 want in, those 9-12 want to be top 8, those 5-8 want to be top 4, those in top 4 want to be 1.
Always a little gamblers fallacy that is hard to fight-next game will do it...The lesson that is easy to say, but hard to implement: sometimes you have to just let it go and let things happen naturally instead of trying to force a result.
And lastly, remember to eat and drink and stay off your feet when not playing. Atticus frequently was reminding me to do this. There were times where I was a mess. I ate some food at Atticus’ insistence and then came back and did well. I recall having to remind him years ago of this at the 2016 States. Have a friend with you at these tourneys and look after each other help each other out :)
Hopefully those new to the format learned some things, and thought about how to approach the next best game qualifying format. (Pretty sure that will be Free Play Florida).
Thanks for reading, and nice playing with everyone :)
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This thread was a MUST READ and I mentioned it several times over the Point Monsters Twitch stream during the tournament.
This and all your pinball tips should be archived as a sticky in the 'Game play tips, tricks and score challenges' sub category after a month or so here, so they are easy to reference in the future.
It was really exciting to watch almost all of the Point Monster gameplay this past weekend, and how the constant addition of talented new competitive players can affect who qualifies in what positions. The presence of Anthony Dickson and Gwen Octavia (both 1st timers at PM) and Alex Marino (2nd time) definitely made a difference in Main and Classics.
The top 4 qualifiers were the top 4 in Main finals, but I felt that anyone could have taken the top spot. Eric Stone not doing well in Classics finals after qualifying 1st was a bit of a shocker but proves that possibility.