The Village BBS
Florida Arcade and Pinball Collectors => Florida Arcade and Pinball Collectors => Topic started by: pinballcorpse on June 15, 2019, 09:41:19 AM
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I noticed an attendant on location (uses card readers) pressing the start button on games to clear any unused credits. He would just launch all the balls and let them drain.
I asked him why he was doing that and he said, and I quote- “So we don’t lose any moneyâ€.
My response was: You are not losing any money. Further, sometimes leaving a credit on the machine entices someone new to play pinball.
The next comment was “here, you can play this one and save me the work of having to deal with it.â€
It seems that this was instruction given to him: If you see a blinking start button and nobody on the game, make sure it is cleared of credits so we don’t lose money.
Just thought it was odd.
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Or just turn off replays maybe...?
Here's a better idea: Turn games on only when someone wants to play. You won't lose money on electricity. Bonus tip: unplug it.
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Here's a better idea: Turn games on only when someone wants to play. You won't lose money on electricity. Bonus tip: unplug it.
Norma,
You are so right! ;D
Venues love to do this when they have live music, then complain that pinball doesn’t earn... because nobody turns them back on after the show, and they often stay dark for days (or weeks).
Jeff,
I always leave credits on games after a route stop. DEFINITELY entices new players and rewards the curious onlookers with a ride through the box of wonder they just saw under the hood of.
Go ahead, Try it. The first one’s free...
And they say pinball is addicting. 8)
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Norma,
You are so right! ;D
Venues love to do this when they have live music, then complain that pinball doesn’t earn... because nobody turns them back on after the show, and they often stay dark for days (or weeks).
Jeff,
I always leave credits on games after a route stop. DEFINITELY entices new players and rewards the curious onlookers with a ride through the box of wonder they just saw under the hood of.
Go ahead, Try it. The first one’s free...
And they say pinball is addicting. 8)
I agree 100%, with the exception if you know Eric Stone is there/will be at the location in the next 24 hrs. If you don’t agree you don’t like making any money on route
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Sorry but as an operator I don't want people walking up to free credits. They can easily turn them off to avoid this
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Sorry but as an operator I don't want people walking up to free credits. They can easily turn them off to avoid this
My mom loves to tell the story of me walking up to every pinball I ever saw and pressing the Start button to see if I could get a free game. I have to say that without the opportunity or "chance" to play for free I probably would not have stuck with the game from then until now. I used to love absent-minded players! But venues purposefully plunging free games so that someone else won't have fun? Seems counter-productive to me.
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My mom loves to tell the story of me walking up to every pinball I ever saw and pressing the Start button to see if I could get a free game. I have to say that without the opportunity or "chance" to play for free I probably would not have stuck with the game from then until now. I used to love absent-minded players! But venues purposefully plunging free games so that someone else won't have fun? Seems counter-productive to me.
Your way of thinking is counterproductive to my wallet and Erics, without people paying to play Pinball wouldn't exist and we're not in the business of placing machines so people can play for free especially nowadays when people still want to 50 Cent game
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Lol. I was hoping you would say 25c per game! I'm getting old now.
Of course I will always love Nickelrama. All the new Sterns are set on 4 coins per game (and, yes, they're nickels!) But they won't transform your spare nickels back into dollars. (Darn.)
I have a lot of empathy for operators. You put this expensive thing out there for total strangers to beat up. People do evil things to it and you have no one around to blame. Then you have to hope the venue even cares you are taking up space in their building. I used to be disappointed when I saw a pin or videogame off at a pizza place or something. Most of the time I suspected it really worked. I never had the courage to reach around, turn it on and find out.
And I confess I used to be one of those who secretly tried to extract free games by any means necessary. (i'm reformed now!) But I know a lot of people don't care about the value you operators bring.
I still love finding free games!
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Man, I leave free credits up all the time at Vector. I tell people all the time to look out for blinking start buttons. I guess it's just depends on your business model...
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I’m all for operators making money and I don’t mind paying to play. I’ll pay to play in tourneys ad nauseam even if I don’t need to keep trying to qualify and that cost more than 50 cents a game. I just enjoy playing.
My philosophy is that I am supporting the event, or in this example, location pinball.
I also happen to enjoy sharing and helping people in general and I take satisfaction in earning enough credits to let someone else have some free fun. I like seeing little kids get excited that they “found a free gameâ€. That’s what the blinking start light is doing, enticing a response.
If the game is setup on credit for replay thresholds and credit for board scores as well as specials and matches, it could be a long session of a good player “playing for free†if they get on a roll. (I think DK called this the Eric Stone effect). Seems the wear and tear on games from a good player would be more concerning than a newbie coming up and double flipping for 10 seconds a ball.
It is just surprising a location doesn’t want me to leave credits, and would rather me potentially play on and on with credits I earn than leave free games for others. (And no Eric Stone wasn’t there to scoop up my scraps :) )
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Hey guys we get it. But machine prices have skyrocketed, and are basically double the price now vs the 90's at 50 cents a game, but people complain at buck a game, so 50 cents is still the sweet spot. And at 50 cents a game at almost double the NIB price something has to give-as in free games. I disable them
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So your telling us your punishing the player that plays your game and gets a match or beats the high score, etc,etc
By disabling them. You will never get rich on operating games period especially now days with prices. I use to operate games 20 years ago and it was more for people to enjoy more then anything. I had a regular job and I moved here and most of the games on location here are garbage so I wouldnt even bother with them.
Hey guys we get it. But machine prices have skyrocketed, and are basically double the price now vs the 90's at 50 cents a game, but people complain at buck a game, so 50 cents is still the sweet spot. And at 50 cents a game at almost double the NIB price something has to give-as in free games. I disable them
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I've often walked or been called away from a machine and left paid credits for someone else to use, the op who resets that machine just stole my money IMHO.
If I reach free credit scores and/or match a machine and don't receive the expected reward I will NEVER touch that machine again so the op looses way more than they gained.
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So your telling us your punishing the player that plays your game and gets a match or beats the high score, etc,etc
By disabling them. You will never get rich on operating games period especially now days with prices. I use to operate games 20 years ago and it was more for people to enjoy more then anything. I had a regular job and I moved here and most of the games on location here are garbage so I wouldnt even bother with them.
You're* and yes, because players are cheap and wont pay a buck, even when they're in a venue that charges 8 bucks a beer.
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I've often walked or been called away from a machine and left paid credits for someone else to use, the op who resets that machine just stole my money IMHO..
If I reach free credit scores and/or match a machine and don't receive the expected reward I will NEVER touch that machine again so the op looses way more than they gained.
Then you are a sourpuss player. You are paying to play the game "for amusment only" bragging rights, high scores, if playing for free games and credits try a casino.
Just my take
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Then you are a sourpuss player. You are paying to play the game "for amusment only" bragging rights, high scores, if playing for free games and credits try a casino.
Just my take
I am not sure what that has to do with stealing his money?
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Maybe i like to leave free credits in games to get other players to play, your not loosing money, your stealing the money of people who put the credits in the game...IMHO..
Just turn the game off if you "don't want to loose money" because as Norma stated, Electricity isn't free, unless your stealing it from your neighbor.
Your correct, I am playing for "Amusement Only"... However, NOT bragging rights, or high scores...
Also, If the Game has credits.. Maybe instead of just "Plunging the ball" Maybe look over the game, play the ball... Maybe the person playing it got sick of it not playing for shit and it was broke, so they just abandoned the money...
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I am not sure what that has to do with stealing his money?
I was addressing his second paragraph not the first.
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If an operator believes it is not commercially reasonable to make winning games an option, he or she should turn off that option on the games they operate. That is their business decision and they have every right to make it. The potential player will either accept that business decision and play based on those condition or will not accept that decision and will keep their money in their pocket. The operator has the right to operate their games as they see fit and time and economics will tell if that strategy works. As long as the policy with respect to free games is clearly indicated on the game, the player can make an informed decision.
If the game is set up (by the operator) and labeled in a way that indicates that players have the opportunity to win free games, then if the player achieves the posted threshold level, they should get the game they have earned. The player has earned the game in accord with the rules posted then they should get that game. If they do not get a game that they should have earned (based on the rules posted on the game), they have a right to be unhappy. Again, the operator is under no obligation to allow players to earn additional games, but if they do, the game should award games in accord with whatever replay level is advertised on the game.
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The operator is under no obligation to allow players to earn additional games, but if they do, the game should award games in accord with whatever replay level is advertised on the game.
This actually skews the conversation in a different path.
If there was no way to win a free game (or even match), would it change your opinion to play/not play it? I understand there are a million scenarios but I have actually thought of disabling match, as that was and is an outdated mechanic in pinball (no skill, pure luck).
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The replay threshold combined with the game settings (no extra balls for example) can be set to essentially unachievable levels by even the best players, save for a one in 1000 miracle game.
I didn’t feel the issue was whether or not there were replays awarded. It was the losing money comment which made absolutely zero sense.
The basic scenarios are this: 1) The credits were paid for already and the player walked away for whatever reason, so no money was lost, or 2) the credits were earned via thresholds, specials, matches etc, which was how the operator set up the game anyway, so again no money lost or 3) a combination of paid and additional earned credits.
A person walking away from credits changes absolutely nothing about the state of the credits on the game or the money earned.
People could have had someone “save their spot†while they went to the bar, restroom, grabbed a smoke, made a call or whatever. They come back and keep playing. Again, no money lost and nothing given away for free.
And as I said earlier, this was staff, not their personal games, not their personal business location. So somebody told them to actively be on the lookout do this.
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This actually skews the conversation in a different path.
If there was no way to win a free game (or even match), would it change your opinion to play/not play it? I understand there are a million scenarios but I have actually thought of disabling match, as that was and is an outdated mechanic in pinball (no skill, pure luck).
I do not think it would impact my decision to play or not play a location game. When I put my money in, I do not expect anything other than the game I paid to play. Anything else is pure gravy. I see a game out on route so seldom that I would put money in just to show my support for it being there. Probably an outlier, but that is how I see it.
But, others may see it differently, particularly the casual players that match was originally designed to benefit. Match may be part of what keeps them coming back. I can not speak for anyone else, but for me, absence of the match feature or free games would not impact my decision to play or not play.
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i'm surprised no one mentioned the card system. once you do the math, each pinball "paid" game probably costs $2.65 or something like that.
i figured out an amount, i think at dave and busters, and it amazed me how many credits a namco reunion would take to play: at that time, it equated to about $1.38 a game, iirc.
at fun depot, customers swipe cards on machines that don't even function (straight donations to fun depot). that's the key to pure profit.
corpse should have played the game, and laughed when the attendant walked by hours later. :P
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For me, to win free game, or a match, is an essential component of the pleasure. It kills the challenge if it's disable. I prefer to pay 1$ with potential replay than 50c without it.
Closest arcade for me is Arcade Odyssey. They have RFM, which I prefer to any of their Marvel Stern. But as it's the only one without the replay, i tend to avoid it.
And yes, to find a free credit is an eastern egg. I tend to play more and end up paying more if I can start the playing session for free.
I understand it can be a psychological barrier to put 4 quarters in a machine, but maybe it's time to upgrade payment options if you really want your pins to perform.
As Chris said, when you swipe a card, you don't really know, or care, what's the cost of one game.
I'm working with vending machine manufacturers, now you can pay with your watch, and more than half of the payment are done in credit card, even for $1.
So, you can charge me $2 a game, as long as i can pay with cc and hope for a replay ;D
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at fun depot, customers swipe cards on machines that don't even function (straight donations to fun depot). that's the key to pure profit.
I, for one, enjoy the unique challenges that the Fun Despot[sic] provides with their pinball machines.
Want to know what it's like to play a game with no GI lighting?
Only one flipper working?
Shorted out DMD?
Or if you just want to see what a game would be like if it provided zero balls after you start, well, I've got just the place for you!
I mean, why turn them off or service them if the card readers still work?
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...I mean, why turn them off or service them if the card readers still work?
bingo. :) and no refund...the true experience is you were able to slide a card into a machine worth $7500, dead. none more dead than here.
now go slide $2.83 of card credit on the galaga that doesn't move left.
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Wow, this conversation is crazy to me. In my 30+ years of pumping quarters into arcade/pinball machines, I have yet to see one just give out random credits for no reason. As Jeff said and maybe others, someone already paid for that credit. So are they really free games. IMO and experience, If i see a free credit I usually play it. I also will play more if the game is working 100% (hint hint whoever has Sarbez in St Augustine) Fix your damn pinball machines and maybe use something other than the initial 1st run code. Prob earn an extra $20-40 bucks a week from me alone.. I would think the name of the game is to get people playing them to make money. Just my 2 cents..
E
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Part of the excitement of playing pinball is pushing for that high score/free credit accomplishment- like during my younger years. For me it has nothing to do with saving/spending money. If that is taken away, I most likely wouldn’t be playing those machines.
Retail has the concept of a “loss leader,†where products are sold at less than their value to attract more customers. While similar, in this case the operator is not selling a product for less, they seem to be taking a paid/earned product away.
What if Publix BOGO policy had the following fine print:
“if you are not going to use/eat that free product immediately, or you are planning to let someone else use/eat that product at a later date, then we have the right to take it back.â€
Sure, Publix can remove BOGO all together. But their marketing/finance department apparently still thinks its a good idea.
I’ve never had machines on location, so my comments are purely opinion based on my thoughts.
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one of the locations i service started with allowing people to leave their free games for others to play until someone abused it. That person would come in everyday just to play the free games. never bought anything from the store. Just would come in daily to see what machine had a free game. if there was a free one he would play it and then leave.
after his actions were noticed any free credits were removed by the staff. Eventually the abuser got the hint. free games are given out by the staff if they have time to some one that is interested and has never played. If i am there on a service call i can give a person a free game.
The location still gets new players and they still have fun.
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one of the locations i service started with allowing people to leave their free games for others to play until someone abused it. That person would come in everyday just to play the free games. never bought anything from the store. Just would come in daily to see what machine had a free game. if there was a free one he would play it and then leave.
after his actions were noticed any free credits were removed by the staff. Eventually the abuser got the hint. free games are given out by the staff if they have time to some one that is interested and has never played. If i am there on a service call i can give a person a free game.
The location still gets new players and they still have fun.
I personally wouldn't call that "abuse". Cheapskate, yes.
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lol if he bought a soda or something from the store it would have been ok. but nada . vep cheapskate is one way to say it lol
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1 guy "taking" a free game paid by another patron, and left behind.
it's like a business removing a soda machine, because that 1 guy came in and took a quarter out of the coin return, and left with it.
why should anyone put effort into this credit clearing activity at all? :) i like the "test play, take notes on issues" approach mentioned above.
and i've routed, long term, both a newer stern pinball and an arcade. although it was space advantage for me, the money split i received just paid for maintenance on the pinball, while the arcade's yield was all pure pathetic profit.