Author Topic: Pinflation  (Read 2044 times)

Offline PinFever

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Pinflation
« on: November 09, 2011, 11:23:36 AM »
What is it .. why does it happen. How does it happen. is it simple supply and demand or are WTB threads on multiple boards raising the bar ....   

 Not sure but there are pro's and cons i guess .. 
  Recent  normally low  Priced games that sold high or trying to be sold high
 High Speed= not even a great one 2500= sold
 Haunted House = 2000+   sold
The Shadow 3000   . What?
The Flinstones 2500  Huh?
Earthshaker .Non working 2000 WTF?


   just some of the ones of recent but can at least list 4 more that fall in this are you kidding/greedy/wishfull thinking  category .. 

 Hope that all the ones i own start getting coo coos  going ga ga over them and posting lots of WTB posts  ..  Soon maybe my STTNG will be 5000 thousand Dollars and My MINT  Tommy The Who Pin will be at 4000 .   So start asking me for straight up trades for  Tommy , its the next Medieval Maddness man /   Maybe do straight up for a Totan / Cactus Canyon / Sopranos/ ToM/IJ   williams ect.   anyway do not care . just an observation . start hyping my games please


Offline kawikid

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 11:25:30 AM »
this is what we call hloiday pricing :) welcome lol it will be here till jan. then prices will probably settle back down.
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Offline PinFever

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 12:14:44 PM »
 :-\  seems to easy an explanation .   X-mas   .    bahh  .   

Offline Taygeta

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 12:21:09 PM »
Someone paying 2500-3000 for a WH20 in average shape would've been called out a few years back, now it is completely reasonable for one to go for that. Prices aren't set in stone and more importantly condition is king. I can't speak for the other people you're talking about but I price my games to what I have in them and the shape it is in.

Offline mECHsLAVE

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 12:33:51 PM »
There's been several threads on RGP recently discussing pinball pricing into the future.   Prices do usually take a slight bump around the holidays, but the ones you quoted are fairly dramatic.   I'd question whether or not a few of those sales were completed.

The pinball price explosion of the past 10 years is simply due to more and more people getting into pinball collecting, and all going after the full-feature machines of the 90's.   The "A-list" price explosion (overall higher % increase) is due to so many people getting into collecting and immediately shaping their collections around the numerous "Top 10" lists, ie. everyone wanting the exact same few machines.  The only good thing about the "follow the leader" mentality is that lots of pins get left in the Land of Lost Toys category and stay around $1000, because they're labeled "B-list" or "C-list."  LOL, which is funny to me because that alone makes them undesirable to certain types of collectors, not because of the machines themselves or how they play, but simply because they're labled "B-list."  So as expensive as the top tier stuff has become, you can still find really good pins in that $1K range.  One benefit to the herd mentality.

From personal experience, I used to get crazy looks in the late 90's for (gasp) owning a brand new pinball machine in my home.  It was considered pretty out there.   But due to pinball dying on location, players who loved pinball had no choice but to own the machines, and routed machines were cheap 10 years ago, after all they didn't earn very well for ops anymore.  So more and more collectors began building bigger and bigger collections from the cheap machines. 

So then you had Craiglist connecting everyone, eBay as ready-made "price-check" for operators, guys going into pinball resale business, and the days of cheap machines were OVER, for good.  Well, I mean like the days of talking to an operator (who nobody had ever even called) and going to buy his machines for $500 a piece...those days are over.   I actually touched base with the very op I'm thinking of recently.  He said he gets at least 2-3 calls per week from pinball collectors wanting to buy his non-existent broken machines, etc etc. LOL  We had a good laugh about the 15-20 machines I bought from him back around 02-03.  Those days will never return. 

Like all hobbies which get hot, it will get cold again.  There will be new plateaus.  Prices will fluctuate.   But with every living breathing human connected via the internet these days, the deals are gone for the most part, other than the odd CL-jump-in-your-car-drive-and-pray deals, the prices will remain fairly constant until a new pinnacle is reached in pinball.   In other words, since you can't buy cheap machines anymore, you can't sell cheap machines anymore. 

If JJP and Stern succeed in standardizing color lcd displays, and moving pinball back into locations, then you could see a drop in the older DMD stuff.    Or at least, a dip in the super high-end stuff.   Two or three years out.  They will certainly not keep increasing at the rates they have been.  AFM's will not be $12K in 5 years.  MM will not be $20K.   Just not going to happen.  I think this moment in time right now is the absolute peak of DMD pin pricing.  But that's under the assumption that a new pinnacle is coming soon.  We'll see...
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Offline PinFever

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 12:37:26 PM »
def not pointing  anyone out , seems something is driving the prices of certain pins up..  Perhaps it is simple supply and demand and the Pin not needing any restoring . perhaps they feel a new Stern is x amount now and made cheap so a old Bally that needs no work or a little is built stronger and figure 3000 is still lower than a new regular model Stern at 4200-4600 new in box  .     Why whitewater .  Is only the williams games of 1992 1993 1994 the be all end all of williams titles and will rise even more



Someone paying 2500-3000 for a WH20 in average shape would've been called out a few years back, now it is completely reasonable for one to go for that. Prices aren't set in stone and more importantly condition is king. I can't speak for the other people you're talking about but I price my games to what I have in them and the shape it is in.

Offline PinFever

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 12:41:53 PM »
Awesome read Mech  , explains alot

Offline Old Pin Guy

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 12:46:17 PM »
Whitewater is an enigma.

At first, I noticed the heavy demand and Buzz on the Bash, Several years ago.
Slowly we saw, many whitewaters travel to the East coast because of this demand.

I find it interesting that be it Canada, Europe, NY, or the West Coast, most pinheads
have no buzz on Whitewater. I think it is regional.

The other posts are all in agreement. The route machine supply shrinking, the demand increasing,
on older games. Certainly I see more press, and machines in the news, and on TV.
My sons friends at 15, are more interested in Pinball, then my older ones at 23 or when they were younger.
I was shocked that his friends knew some titles, even though many have never played a machine.
They say the have seen it around the web......

A new generation of fans to surge growth and more demand?  Looks that way to me, other then a global recession........

Offline mECHsLAVE

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 12:46:40 PM »
def not pointing  anyone out , seems something is driving the prices of certain pins up..  Perhaps it is simple supply and demand and the Pin not needing any restoring . perhaps they feel a new Stern is x amount now and made cheap so a old Bally that needs no work or a little is built stronger and figure 3000 is still lower than a new regular model Stern at 4200-4600 new in box  .     Why whitewater .  Is only the williams games of 1992 1993 1994 the be all end all of williams titles and will rise even more



Someone paying 2500-3000 for a WH20 in average shape would've been called out a few years back, now it is completely reasonable for one to go for that. Prices aren't set in stone and more importantly condition is king. I can't speak for the other people you're talking about but I price my games to what I have in them and the shape it is in.


Sure, just to illustrate how quickly these things change.  Orlando auction circa 2004, WH20 in superb condition with topper and no cabinet fade.  $1025 - SOLD!   That's probably a $3000 WH20 right now.   (What was a $300K house in 2004 is now lucky to be $100K).   Markets indeed change.  :)
-Jason

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 01:24:33 PM »
supply and demand..

pinball is getting more popular, more people getting into the hobby every day so more demand for good pins.

there is not a huge scene here but I know in NYC over the last few years there have been a few people that have really made a good sized scene there and pushed to get new players involved.

even locally there have been a few new people on the board that have started collections in the last few months.

Offline micksimmonds

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 01:30:30 PM »
you only have to look at how the Village has grown over the last few years

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thats some of that stats relating to the Village, so we have far more people in the hobby/scene now, chasing the same deals, wanting the same machines, lack of auctions, prices will increase, as stated above supply and demand, but he have an ever growing collectors forum here, with a massive amount of posts daily, and more new people find the site, and join and become part of the 'village community'
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Offline Johny_Utah

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 01:49:13 PM »
Yeah who was the first guy to sell his MM for $10,000.  ;D
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Offline Johny_Utah

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 02:07:27 PM »
Imagine if that guy sells his $25,000 Kiss pin on Ebay.
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Offline number six

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 02:16:24 PM »
Definitely agree that the loss of auctions and the increase in the collector base (not just here but all around) has raised prices. Also the era of the operator is almost completely gone. Finding games off route for cheap isn't really happening anymore, nor is finding ops dumping old games cheap. The ops that are still around want top dollar because they know everything has moved to the home collector. With each passing year there are also less and less of the older Pins, either through games that have been destroyed, lost or that are now in the hands of people that will never sell them. Some supply goes down yet demand raises as more people start collecting since you can't play games anywhere else in many cases.

There's also that 'game of the week' mentality that still seems to burn through. Things go in cycles.. if you wait many games come down. Some underpriced games just finally got noticed and prices caught up. They aren't really overpriced now, they were just under priced before.

Offline dug

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Re: Pinflation
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 02:49:58 PM »
Another thing that might be a factor is the supply of decent imports, which from what I've heard is pretty much done with now.  Lack of operator games with less import games definitely affects things on the supply side of the equation.  I've paid more than I expected for my Addams Family and STTNG but I have really limited space so I moved up in quality since I couldn't move up in quantity anymore.  Otherwise I would have keep a lot of the other B and C titles which I really enjoyed.     
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