MB, AFM, CC, and other remakes coming soon

[TimothyC]

I doubt with materials, employees, insurance, utilities, etc. that they could make any WPC95 for less than $7k.

While I have ZERO issue with companies charging what the market will bear, I think it's a pipe dream to assume that production cost have more than doubled in just a few years for the big boys in the business (in my uneducated opinion).  JJP sold all their emerald WOZ's at 6500 and now the 75th is available at 8k even though it's basically more of the same from a production standpoint.  Someone building a few machines is one thing, but for the companies making them by the thousands I think it's safe to say the dramatic price increase over the last few years specifically has more to do with demand/market acceptability than input costs.  That's just my uneducated opinion anyway ...

[Baiter]

JJP sold all their emerald WOZ's at 6500 and now the 75th is available at 8k even though it's basically more of the same from a production standpoint. 

You're a bit low...it's actually $9250 with invisiglass, if you want to compare apples to apples.

[TheBatman]

I played some pinball last night...I played LW3, TFTC, and Airbourne Avenger....I'm happy, all great games I love playing. I'll leave all the new game/ price wars for my richer friends, and just go visiit them when I need a fix.  IMO the prices have been out of hand for at least several years already, now it's ridiculous.  I'm thinking that the bubble that is going to burst may NOT be the desire for the newest pin and highest price, but I'm thinking rather the bubble that bursts will be the one that people will start to realize there's a LOT of great games that you don't have to sell a kidney to own, that will give you a LOT if not all of the same thrill, at a much more affordable cost.  Maybe people will start appreciating EM's for their simpler beauty as well.

[PinPup]

Maybe I'm in the minority in all this but whether or not I can afford all of this is irrelevant.

If I feel I am being taken advantage of my answer will always be no thanks and go f*ck yourself.

Its easy enough to do.

Stern machines with crap code which may never get fixed? go f*ck yourself

8k for a remake I will maybe get in a year which may not even be any good? go f*ck yourself

a super LE version of a machine already promised to be an LE? go f*ck yourself.

Prepay for any machine? go f*ck yourself.

Until people get sick of being taken advantage of your pinball "bubble" isnt going anywhere.  All this stuff is just a blatant cash grab and people are going for it which is the sad part.

I have to agree with these arguements of why it is best not to buy new directly. Better to buy a newish machine from someone else, not that it will be oodles cheaper, but at least you get to see the end product and really know what you will end up with. If I bought the Emerald edition I would really be ticked about the 75th version, especially so soon. I hope JJ will offer some of the 75th special parts to previous owners, might lessen the sting a bit. But I do have to say the 75th indeed looks like a fantastic machine, but price is also fantastic. I guess the biggest consoation to Emerald owners is they got a great machine for less money. I wonder how many would opt for the 75th if they had the choice of both machines at the same time?

[Mike D]

While I have ZERO issue with companies charging what the market will bear, I think it's a pipe dream to assume that production cost have more than doubled in just a few years for the big boys in the business (in my uneducated opinion).  JJP sold all their emerald WOZ's at 6500 and now the 75th is available at 8k even though it's basically more of the same from a production standpoint.  Someone building a few machines is one thing, but for the companies making them by the thousands I think it's safe to say the dramatic price increase over the last few years specifically has more to do with demand/market acceptability than input costs.  That's just my uneducated opinion anyway ...

Just because JJP originally sold LEs for $6,500 does mean that's what it actually cost Jack to make them.  I honestly don't think JJP had any idea how expensive WOZ would be when the company was started.  Why do think they are taking money for the Hobbit when they haven't even finished making the WOZ?  The ruby red LE LE at $9k, well now they are probably trying to make up for loses.  Although, if I bought an LE I'd be a little annoyed by this.  Anyway, you can rest assured that the next JJP pin won't have nearly as much as the WOZ did.  There's a reason nobody is making TZ (machines filled with toys) like games anymore - they have to charge $10k for them for go belly up in a few years.  Even Bally/Williams started making watered down fan pattern games by the end.

It's expensive to make stuff.  Hell, I spent almost $10k in R&D just to make a TV play video clips inside an existing pinball game.  I can't restore a machine for less than $6k in parts, plating, etc. and I have absolutley no overhead costs.  Sure I pay more for parts, but I'd guess it's cheaper for me to build a game in my garage than in a factory.  Where I work we spend almost $8k a month just in electricity.  There's a reason almost everything is made in China or other countries these days.

[Mike D]

FYI - that $8k is just for lighting 

[TheBatman]

You should talk to Art about switching to LED's!

[Pinball]

Batman- That's funny!   

[Mike D]

You should talk to Art about switching to LED's!

Ha, that is funny.

[pindan3]

I want more!!! but the games are getting up there!  interesting thread......

[khabbi]

I'm not sure I would put "coming soon" with "within a couple of years".  Lots of things can happen between now and the proposed time of reproducing the games.  The pinball market has been pretty volatile lately, so who knows if this will ever happen (in my humble opinion). 

[RussG]

Couple of weeks ago I posted a forum topic about how I believed the pin bubble was going too start seeing a slowing or at least a chaotic period.
With pin prices rising above the ability of the average consumer being able to afford them, the relatively small niche market that buys and collects them and now the seeming attempt to saturate the market with pinball manufacturers and pins I think we are close.

[Harmony]

Looks like i piked the perfect time to leave the hobby, the craziness of the hobby just did not agree with me anymore 

[HammysHangout ( Hammy )]

Well, when a USED pin or older "style" theme cost more then a NEW Stern Title, i will stick with the newer stern title, they seemed to have improved there game since the other "pinball" companies have popped up out of the wood work.

[snaroff]

Couple of weeks ago I posted a forum topic about how I believed the pin bubble was going too start seeing a slowing or at least a chaotic period.
With pin prices rising above the ability of the average consumer being able to afford them, the relatively small niche market that buys and collects them and now the seeming attempt to saturate the market with pinball manufacturers and pins I think we are close.

Hey Russ,

No doubt that if the pinball manufacturers over produce, it will effect the market...your point is well taken. Still hard to know where it's going to end up. I still get a lot of enjoyment from my pins, so for me it's all a side show.

Sometimes I think we actually live in a bubble:-) The number of average consumers that would even consider a 5k pinball is very, very small. Average consumers don't buy 200-400lb. machines that are a bitch to maintain and cost a significant percentage of their annual take home pay.

Most of the folks who contribute to this forum are by definition *not* average consumers. Most of use love pinball...it's a hobby for us.

Purchasing NIB or beautifully restored pinball machines is a luxury purchase. If you aren't a pinball fanatic/hobbyist, you have deep pockets (bottom line).

snaroff