Author Topic: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying  (Read 2082 times)

Offline pinballcorpse

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Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« on: July 28, 2019, 04:20:38 PM »
Today’s topic is how to deal with the PAPA qualifying system for the upcoming PAPA Style Tournament at the Pinball Asylum.

Hopefully this will illustrate some very important differences in qualifying between the required PAPA composite score and the traditional composite qualifying score like at Point Monsters or FPF.

KEY DIFFERENCE 1: You must play 5 unique games FIRST and THEN submit your entry.

With other high scoring formats, as you play games one by one you are automatically entered on the rank list for a game.  Your overall rank out of 500 changes as you play/keep each game.

With the PAPA format, you have to play all 5 games and decide if you want to keep all 5.  Your rank changes based only on the whole ticket.

NOTE: There is no void and requeue for a single game. You are deciding to keep or void the whole entry.

KEY DIFFERENCE 2: Everything you submit counts, so you are also competing against yourself.  Most people have a very hard time with this concept.

I find the easiest way to explain this to people is to consider each ticket you submit as a UNIQUE player at the tourney.  Jeff1, Jeff2, Jeff3 etc.  It is still the same person (me, Jeff) but in essence you are competing against yourself as well.

You are still trying to achieve the best possible score on each game, and will earn a value between 0 and 100points on each game for a maximum composite score of 500 points with 5 games counting on a ticket.

As expected, only the highest composite score counts.


Here is an example.  The tourney bank is AFM, Centaur, Cherry Bell , CV, Fast Draw, FH, Joker Poker, K&Q, Paragon, TAF

Suppose I play FH, AFM, Joker Poker, Paragon, K&Q.

The scores are
FH 15MIL = 100 points
AFM 1 BIL = 60 points
JP 300k = 70 points
Para 250k = 80 points
K&Q 600 = 85 points

The composite score is 395 points. Call this my Jeff 1 ticket.

Suppose I later play these 5 games with scores and ranks as follows

TAF 25 MIL= 65 points
CV 20 MIL = 90 points
Centaur 900K = 80 points
Fast Draw 54K= 55 points
FH 30MIL = 100 points ( current best game if kept)

This is a composite score of 390 points for my Jeff 2 ticket. Note also there is one overlapping game FH, and I haven’t played Cherry Bell yet. (Big shock)

Do I void this or keep it?

On the surface this would not be my best ticket, since with 390 points I am 5 points below my 395 point ticket.

HOWEVER, pay attention here:  If I do submit it, my current FH score of 30MIL beats my Jeff 1 score of 15MIL and knocks that to a 90, making that Jeff 1 score a 385.  (Keep in mind if ANYONE beats my FH score, I also drop to 90 on that game)

So now my Jeff 2 score of 390points is my best ticket.  In other words, I am competing against myself and knocked myself down.  I lost 5 points overall.

Why would anyone do that?!!? Just keep the 395point entry, not the 390 point entry.

The above was just to show how you are competing against yourself. 

The thinking part is: If I have a top score, I have to ask do I really think that original FH score of 15 MIL is going to hold.  The minute anyone beats it, (even me) the best that entry can be worth is 385points.  Your highest entry value can never increase. So I could potentially be throwing away a ticket of 390 points.

A couple of easy, important ideas:

IMPORTANT IDEA 1:  Rankings are most fluctuating at the BEGINNING of the qualifying. All of the first entries submitted will have all sorts of 100s and 90s. Don’t think too much at the beginning.

IMPORTANT IDEA 2: In general, the easiest rule of thumb is just keep what is best.  We will talk about anchors later. 

HOLY COW this is confusing...how do I avoid hurting my own scores?

There are a few ways to avoid this:

STRATEGY 1: Pick two separate banks of 5 and don’t mix and match. Keep one set of tickets as games ABCDE and the other as FGHIJ. This ONLY WORKS if there are 10 or more games. One bank should be your most comfortable games.  This doesn’t mean the titles that are popular or you like the best, it means the games AT THIS TOURNEY you feel more often than not that you can do well on. Sometimes cherry bell can be your friend :)

STRATEGY 2:  Mix and Match games but don’t replay a game that is one of your anchors unless you have a good reason. (See examples in Strategy 3 below)

What is an anchor?

Anchors are games that you already have a 100 or 90 on.  They are also the games that can cause the largest swings in your ranking since if anyone (even you) beats your 100 score you immediately lose 10 points, and 5 points for getting beat on a 90. 

Look at the Jeff2 ticket.  There are 2 anchors: the CV score and the FH score. The Jeff1 ticket only has one anchor.

Keep in mind at the beginning there will be LOTS of fluctuation in the anchors.  As time goes on you will have a better feel if a top 2 score is really strong or not.

The highest safe score on a game is 85points and this is the optimal ticket:

Game 1= 85 points
Game 2= 85 points
Game 3= 85 points
Game 4= 85 points
Game 5= 85 points

Composite score of 425points.   No anchors. With an 85 you can only lose 1 point at a time.  Very hard to achieve five 85s in a PAPA format. 

STRATEGY 3: Play 3 of 4 and then let the math help you make your next choice.

After playing 4 games you can see where you are in the standings based on the assumption you keep the ticket.

Example 1:  You are at 250 points after playing 4 games. Your best ticket is 380 points There is no game that will earn you 130 points.  No sense in wasting time waiting to play game 5.  Void the whole ticket, move on. (This can also apply if you need more than 200 points for your next 2 games etc.)

You do NOT have to play all 5 before voiding. 

Example 2: You are at 310 points after 4 games. Your best ticket is 380 points.  You need 70 points to beat your previous ticket.  Pick the game you feel you can do the best on, even if it is an anchor game. 70 points is a top 18 score. (Remember the previous discussion that in a 100, 90, 85, 84... system, from spot 3 on, the rank and position add to 18). 

So look at the scores of the games and decide where to get 70+ points. Should be lots of choices available. Play calm and confident. You are looking good. 

Example 3: You have played 4 games and are at 280 points and your best ticket is 364 points. So you are 84 points behind. You need a top 3 score-85, 90, 100.  Consider what game you are strongest at.  It might have to be one of your anchors.

Example 4: Top 16 qualifying cutoff is 350 points.  You have played 3 games and are at 200points.  You need 150 points.  Think of it as a 2 stage process.  Any combination totaling 150 works.  You must make at least 50points on one of the games.  (100+ 50 = 150). Anything else will be short.  Pick a game you can easily make 50 points on (top 38). Once you pass that score, just keep playing calm.  This decreases the pressure since the 50 is the easy part.  This game could turn into your 100 and you only need 50 on the next game!

These are some fundamental approaches to this format.  It sounds complicated, but it’s not.

Remember:

1. You have to play all 5 games at once for a ticket.
2. You can decide at any time to keep or void the whole ticket.
3. To avoid hurting your best ticket, do not replay games you already have a very high score on unless you have a good reason to replay it.

Hope that helps, and see you at The 2019 Pinball Asylum PAPA Style format soon!

Good skill!

Jeff Palmer
The Pinball Asylum PAPA Style Champion 2016 and 2017
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 04:25:08 PM by pinballcorpse »
Winning (contests) isn't the word. I won it once. The rest of the time you're just defending-Rodney Mullen, skateboarding legend

Offline hawknole

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2019, 11:26:07 PM »
Thanks Jeff

Offline sebacoqui

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2019, 10:14:37 PM »
instead to play better , play smart !!!!!!
EBD, BK, Superman, Pinball Magic, TWD, Fireball '72, GoT , Amazing Spiderman , Frontier, hulk, IM,JP

Offline pinballcorpse

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2019, 11:55:17 PM »
Playing better than everyone else is always the best option :)

Winning (contests) isn't the word. I won it once. The rest of the time you're just defending-Rodney Mullen, skateboarding legend

Offline stf

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2019, 08:46:27 AM »
Between the tournament systems and all these news tables with 50 pages code rules, it is kind of scary for a cajual player like me to consider moving to tournaments, even if the goal is just to meet me people and spend more time playing, it sounds like i have to go back to college and memorize a lot of complicated formulas.
I guess i ll just spend more time in the tournament romm during Freeplay to see how it looks like live  ;)

Offline sebacoqui

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2019, 01:41:34 PM »
I WAS A CASUAL PLAYER, BUT I LOVE 50 PAGES RULES ;)
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Offline stf

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2019, 01:47:38 PM »
I WAS A CASUAL PLAYER, BUT I LOVE 50 PAGES RULES ;)
I love it too, but considering the number of recent tables with complex rules, and all the new ones coming almost every month due to the booming of the inductry, it looks more and more like a memorizing competition instead of a skills activity  :o
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 09:59:52 PM by stf »

Offline k7

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2019, 01:48:03 PM »
Between the tournament systems and all these news tables with 50 pages code rules, it is kind of scary for a cajual player like me to consider moving to tournaments, even if the goal is just to meet me people and spend more time playing, it sounds like i have to go back to college and memorize a lot of complicated formulas.
I guess i ll just spend more time in the tournament romm during Freeplay to see how it looks like live  ;)

most of the new sterns follow a formula of how to get the "points".

i'm in the same boat w/ rules. i don't know what to shoot for, except blinking lights. i don't know when to take the bonus (slap that horribly placed lockdown tournament button!!!), or when to let it roll. i don't care to know.

i need a coach when i play competitively. but throw me on a classic, and i'll hang with the best of them. :P
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 01:50:45 PM by k7 »
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Offline stf

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2019, 10:06:52 PM »
most of the new sterns follow a formula of how to get the "points".

i'm in the same boat w/ rules. i don't know what to shoot for, except blinking lights. i don't know when to take the bonus (slap that horribly placed lockdown tournament button!!!), or when to let it roll. i don't care to know.

i need a coach when i play competitively. but throw me on a classic, and i'll hang with the best of them. :P
Alléluia
Some tournaments are split between modern games and em, no? Ho, and classic ballys just for Klassic ;D

Offline pinballcorpse

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2019, 11:30:46 PM »
Between the tournament systems and all these news tables with 50 pages code rules, it is kind of scary for a cajual player like me to consider moving to tournaments, even if the goal is just to meet me people and spend more time playing, it sounds like i have to go back to college and memorize a lot of complicated formulas.
I guess i ll just spend more time in the tournament romm during Freeplay to see how it looks like live  ;)

No, you don’t need to memorize anything.

It’s very easy for casual people to jump in to tourneys.

The easiest formats for new players are the “strikes” formats.  They are run all over Florida.  Check out the IFPA homepage, or the Florida Tournament Pinball FB Page for events. 

With respect to the 50 page rulesets on new games, learning a few basic things about a game will suffice.  It is very rare that all of the things required for a wizard mode ever come up in a tourney. Trust me even the best players don’t know all the details about every game out there.

Learn how to start a mode or a multiball and learn where a couple special high scoring features or multipliers can be obtained.  That’s it. Forget about all the steps required to reach the grand finale.

This particular PAPA style format post was to help anyone not really familiar with the PAPA Style format.  In the end it’s still one basic concept: score as high as you can on every game you play :)

For you or anyone, if you have any questions about this tourney format, or anything tourney related, please feel free to ask. :)



Winning (contests) isn't the word. I won it once. The rest of the time you're just defending-Rodney Mullen, skateboarding legend

Offline pinballcorpse

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2019, 09:33:14 PM »
I heard from several new people over the past weekend at the 5th annual PAPA Style tourney that this write-up was helpful, but understanding everything was still a little complicated.

Most people get the idea you need to play 5 games first, submit a ticket.

I would suggest that now that you’ve had a real experience, look back at the text here, and see if it makes more sense for the next PAPA Style event. 

I also had some people who were competing in the tourney and watching the stream ask me what I was doing at times in qualifying, particularly at the end. 

I have qualifying/tourney strategies that are somewhat more involved than should be discussed in a Pinball Tourney 101 topic. (For example: sometimes it is NOT desirable to be the number one seed)

I would be happy to share my thoughts sometime to those interested :)

Maybe a Pinball Tourney 102 topic series ? :)
Winning (contests) isn't the word. I won it once. The rest of the time you're just defending-Rodney Mullen, skateboarding legend

Offline doghouse

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Re: Pinball Tourneys 101: PAPA Style Qualifying
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2024, 04:59:45 PM »
PAPA-STYLE 8 coming to The Pinball Asylum June 28, 29, 30th!  See upcoming post about the tournament or check your email for details!
When in Fort Myers, visit The Pinball Asylum..."A Nice Place To Play Pinball."