Impeachment

[Baiter]

A moral compass finally pointing in the right direction...

Let’s grant this to the president: The Democrats have had it out for him from day one, and therefore nearly everything they do is under a cloud of partisan suspicion. This has led many to suspect not only motives but facts in these recent impeachment hearings. And, no, Mr. Trump did not have a serious opportunity to offer his side of the story in the House hearings on impeachment.

But the facts in this instance are unambiguous: The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral.

The reason many are not shocked about this is that this president has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration. He has hired and fired a number of people who are now convicted criminals. He himself has admitted to immoral actions in business and his relationship with women, about which he remains proud. His Twitter feed alone—with its habitual string of mischaracterizations, lies, and slanders—is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.

Trump’s evangelical supporters have pointed to his Supreme Court nominees, his defense of religious liberty, and his stewardship of the economy, among other things, as achievements that justify their support of the president. We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president’s moral deficiencies for all to see. This damages the institution of the presidency, damages the reputation of our country, and damages both the spirit and the future of our people. None of the president’s positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html

[Don Panetta aka 404]

Another round of dumb democrat retardation.

There's nothing like trying to impeach a president over foreign aid drama using a whistleblower that never showed up to testify (because he has close ties to the bidens), only for democrats to impeach because the President wouldn't allow his staff to testify-calling it obstruction of congress....Only for democrats to refuse to send articles of impeachment to the senate....essentially obstructing congress.....

[k7]

it has been shown to be a pretty dumbass reason to even attempt this.

democrats with 1 independent, and i think a sole republican, would impeach trump for just saying; "i can shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and they would applaud me"

any charge bought up, it all plays out the same: the house votes to impeach. the senate slams the door shut on whatever trial ends up occurring.

the fun part is, biden is doing a fine job of just talking himself out of the running.

[Yosho]

Any article or argument on a topic as disputed as this that then appeals to the reader/listener and uses phrases like “undisputed”, “settled”, “unarguable” or in this articles case... “unambiguous” is inherently a weak argument that is trying to prop itself up by striking down the possibility of any opposing viewpoints. It’s a cheap debate tactic and rarely works.

The article above is an opinion piece that millions of Americans disagree with. No more, no less.


On a separate topic... has Speaker Nancy Pelosi had a stroke?  I don’t mean that in a sarcastic or mean way, I mean really... did she have a stroke?  I’ve watched countless hours of her press conferences over the years and in the last few weeks/couple of months, she is slurring her words and having to use different muscles in her month to pronounce some of her words. Something is not right there.  It could be a bad fitting denture, but I’d have expected it to have been fixed by now.  She’s also been uncharacteristically irritable and is making seeming irrational decisions (the way the impeachment hearings and now non-submission to the Senate has gone).  If President Trump suddenly spike and acted like this, I think the Press would be rife with speculation something serious was wrong with his health.

[Don Panetta aka 404]

the fun part is, biden is doing a fine job of just talking himself out of the running.

[Baiter]

Maybe someone can explain the continued fascination with the whistleblower?  All they did was point out the situation, which resulted in evidence being gathered and witnesses testifying.  There was never a need for the whistleblower to do anything.

[Yosho]

The whistleblower protections are an important tool to keep government responsible, and I'd hope we can all agree that it shouldn't be abused for political purposes.  The concern is that it may have been abused here.  I think the interest in this "whistleblower" is three-fold:

1) Did he have first hand knowledge of this phone call or did he hear of it second hand - why was he told about it if he wasn't primarily involved?  If not primarily involved, who told him about the call, and was that legal?  His original claims about the call were pretty outrageous and don't match the released transcript.  Was this a coordinated "resist" effort by political opponents?

2) To contine point 1, was this primarily politically motivated on his part?  Reports are he was a previous adviser to VP Biden and close and active political supporter of Biden and Clinton.  If true, it further calls into question his motives and accuracy/honesty.

3). Did he coordinate with Rep. Schiff or his staff prior to submission - did they help write it?  Not only does that call into question the legality of the complaint, but it also contradicts Schiff's statements, and if true, many fair minded people would conclude this was a political stitch-up.

There are probably other concerns, but these are the three I'm tracking.

[Don Panetta aka 404]

Maybe someone can explain the continued fascination with the whistleblower?  All they did was point out the situation, which resulted in evidence being gathered and witnesses testifying.  There was never a need for the whistleblower to do anything.

Linda Tripp says hi.

[Baiter]

Linda Tripp says hi.

Not the same.  Tripp was a witness with the only real proof considering Clinton denied the affair.

In today's case there are already call transcripts and testimonies establishing the proof.  There's no need for the whistleblower to come forward unless it's for retaliation, something Trump has a long track record for.

[kbvette]

Not the same.  Tripp was a witness with the only real proof considering Clinton denied the affair.

In today's case there are already call transcripts and testimonies establishing the proof.  There's no need for the whistleblower to come forward unless it's for retaliation, something Trump has a long track record for.

         Don Pan has this knee jerk reaction to anything not pro Trump,He's cemented in in position.Prefers to express himself with really goofy and off the wall memes and vidoes,very typical of the Trump supporters here.

[briefcase]

kbvette has this knee-jerk reaction to anything not anti-Trump. He's cemented in his position. Prefers to express himself with links to articles that have been posted on Daily Kos, with no added thought or value; very typical of the liberals here.

[Don Panetta aka 404]

Not the same.  Tripp was a witness with the only real proof considering Clinton denied the affair.

In today's case there are already call transcripts and testimonies establishing the proof.  There's no need for the whistleblower to come forward unless it's for retaliation, something Trump has a long track record for.

You're right.

Tripp actually testified with legitimate evidence that forced clinton to acknowledge he lied under oath. Everything from the current whistle-blower has never been confirmed and he has never testified.

[WannaTheater]

There's nothing like trying to impeach a president over foreign aid drama using a whistleblower that never showed up to testify (because he has close ties to the bidens), only for democrats to impeach because the President wouldn't allow his staff to testify-calling it obstruction of congress....Only for democrats to refuse to send articles of impeachment to the senate....essentially obstructing congress.....

The arguments from the right are ridiculous.
If I saw you robbing a bank, and anonymously tipped off the police, and you get caught with gun in hand, and money in pockets, in the bank, and you are on security cameras, and all the evidence shows you are guilty, would your argument be "I am innocent because the anonymous tipster won't testify?"  Even if the whistle blower was Biden.  WHO CARES.  Cases are supposed to be tried on evidence.  PERIOD.  Whistleblower credibility has no play, except in the heads of the guilty.  Or "Quick... Look Over There....." 

Also, what happens if a citizen refuses to comply with a court-ordered subpoena?

To say Trump has NOT obstructed justice, or the Congressional investigation, is, as you say it, another round of ... retardation. 

[pinballcorpse]

Also, what happens if a citizen refuses to comply with a court-ordered subpoena?

The typical language on a court ordered subpoena for deposition or trial is: “ If you fail to comply or appear you may be in contempt of court.”  (Note, it’s not will be in contempt)

[Don Panetta aka 404]

The arguments from the right are ridiculous.
If I saw you robbing a bank, and anonymously tipped off the police

I intentionally clipped out the remaining parts of your post in the quote above because this is simply all that matters there.

The fact is, The only person with any first-hand information on the matter that testified has stated that there was nothing out of the ordinary with the phone call. Everyone else that testified was not on the call and as i already showed in another thread, there are strong inclinations that at least one or more people on the stand have committed perjury.

I've also repeated stated I'm not a right-winger. I'm a classic-liberal. I've also stated here that I do believe Trump may eventually abuse some power that will lead to him being impeached. You can then rest assured that Mike Pence will become President and personally oversee all of your gay, trans, funny-pronoun, antifa,Harry Potter fans and overall man-children will be drowned in local rivers en-masse. Possibly airing their executions on TV marking the second American witch trials.