OT: Jeep wrangler stalling, no gauges

[HammysHangout ( Hammy )]

if you have engine light on now, go get it scanned.. the computer detected something

i could scan for you if you were closer.

[Mamushka]

Some more guesses...

Bad fuel pump perhaps would do that, or one that's on it's way out and working intermittently.

My Dad (mechanic) was just telling me the other night how a while back on my bro in law's Jeep it has an engine shutoff switch, when bad shuts down the engine as a safety precaution.  It wasn't so good when it shut everything down going down the highway. 

That's the fuel pump inertia switch. Once it's off you have to manually reset it so that should not be the problem.

As far as the fuel pump, it's possible. Ever run out of gas in the Jeep (even once)?

[Mamushka]

OK, found this:

http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic102663.htm

Looks like a very common problem, while I usually do not like throwing parts at a problem I would probably try the crank sensor as it seems to be the most common fix. Besides, the random nature of the problem (hot or cold, restarts easy or hard, etc) shows that a bad sensor is a reasonable guess. Often with a mechanical problem you will only see it a certain times (hot day, low RPM, etc).

[Mojo_114]

It is electrical. Could be:
Your ignition switch is faulty.
A MAIN fuse in the fuse block is loose.
Computer is loosing voltage.
Plug on back of gauges is loose--some engines will not run when gauges are unpluged.
The relay that turns the system ON is failing--Switch a few relays around in the fuse block and see if it starts.
The list gets longer, if nothing works, tell the mech. that the gauges go dead. That is the main culprit.
Good luck,
JIM

[The Renegade]

And when i say wont restart, you can hear it trying to start, the starter is working the engine sounds like it wants to start.  It just sounds like its out of fuel.....

Kinda sounds like a main relay issue to me. You can pull a main relay (or whatever jeep calls it) out of a junkyard jeep and swap it and see, otherwise you'll need to perform testing when it's failed to really determine the issue. (or do the "throw parts at it" method)

The weird part to me is the dashboard stuff, it's acting like the ignition is being turned off, which (IMO) eliminates stuff like the FPR, fuel pump itself, etc, unless the jeep's gauge cluster goes dead like that whenever the engine isn't running, but the key is in the On position.

[Todd]

OK, found this:

http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic102663.htm

Looks like a very common problem, while I usually do not like throwing parts at a problem I would probably try the crank sensor as it seems to be the most common fix. Besides, the random nature of the problem (hot or cold, restarts easy or hard, etc) shows that a bad sensor is a reasonable guess. Often with a mechanical problem you will only see it a certain times (hot day, low RPM, etc).

Crank sensor will usually throw a code. What codes are in the system please?

[Mamushka]

we can guess all day, but you'll waste your time. the code (hard code or soft code) will get us to the cause.   

I have found that the code will rarely show you the actual problem. For instance, I just fixed a friends van that had the codes "lean condition left bank, lean condition right bank, misfire cylinder 6". The van was bucking like crazy under load and had poor idle quality. Yes the codes helped identify the problem but it could still have been an air, fuel or electrical problem. After looking around online I found that there was a very common problem with the intake leaking. I fixed that, this cleared the lean codes and improved the idle. I then swapped injectors, plugs (looked good) and wires from a "good" cylinder and the problem stayed on #6. I put on a new coil and the problem went away. Turns out that the coil was working intermittently (like I said, the plug looked fine).

So yes, he needs to pull any codes (I should have said that prior to recommending him to change the crank sensor) but I would be surprised if it pinpoints the problem.

[ratsflif]

Ok here is the tale for today.....

Drove son to school no engine light and no problems,
went autozone and got the codes:

P0344 Cam sensor/cylinder misfire

P0335 Crankshaft position sensor

Drove it out of autozone parking lot and stall
restarted and drove fine for a while
Engine light on now
stalled out a few more times durring the day
went to advanced autoparts to read codes again and got:

PQ016 cam/crankshaft pos

U0155 Lost communication with ipc module

P0335 Crankshaft position sensor

Looked up the crankshaft sensor and its $20
Talked to a mechanic there said he would put it in for $40

What do you guys think?

Thanks
Mike

[Todd]

Here you go. I am not a true technician though so take what I say with a grain of salt. I think you may have an issue that you need to have a shop look at. The diagnostic flow chart for these codes can become technical pretty quick. My bet is on a short or pcm.


SYMPTOM
P0344-CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR INTERMITTENT

WHEN MONITORED
While cranking the engine and engine running.

SET CONDITION
When the failure counter reaches 20. One Trip Fault.

POSSIBLE CAUSES


Good trip equal to zero
CMP wire harness inspection
(F856) 5-volt supply circuit open or shorted to ground
Tone wheel/pulse ring inspection
Checking CKP sensor signal with the DRBIII(R) lab scope
Camshaft position sensor
(K44) CMP signal circuit shorted to battery voltage
(K44) CMP signal circuit open
(K44) CMP signal circuit shorted to ground
(K44) CMP signal circuit shorted to the (F856) 5-volt supply circuit
PCM


SYMPTOM
P0335-CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR CIRCUIT

WHEN MONITORED
Engine cranking.

SET CONDITION
No CKP signal is present during engine cranking, and at least 8 camshaft position sensor signals have occurred.

POSSIBLE CAUSES


Intermittent CKP signal
Intermittent CMP signal
(f855) 5-volt supply circuit shorted to voltage
(f855) 5-volt supply circuit open
(f855) 5-volt supply circuit shorted to ground
(k24) CKP signal circuit open
(K24) CKP signal circuit shorted to voltage
(K24) CKP signal circuit shorted ground
(K24) CKP signal circuit shorted to (F855) 5-volt supply circuit
(K900) sensor ground circuit open
Crankshaft position sensor
PCM


SYMPTOM
P0016-CRANKSHAFT/CAMSHAFT TIMING MISALIGNMENT

WHEN MONITORED
Engine cranking and Engine running

SET CONDITION
Powertrain Control Module detects an error when the camshaft position is out of phase with the crankshaft position.

POSSIBLE CAUSES


Intermittent condition
CMP wire harness inspection
Tone wheel/pulse ring inspection
Intermittent CMP signal
CKP wire harness inspection
Tone wheel/pulse ring inspection
Intermittent CKP signal
Camshaft position sensor
Crankshaft position sensor


SYMPTOM
U0155-NO CLUSTER BUS MESSAGE

WHEN MONITORED
Ignition key on and engine running.

SET CONDITION
No messages received from the MIC (Instrument Cluster) for 20 seconds .

POSSIBLE CAUSES


DTC reset
Communicate with cluster
Instrument cluster operation
PCM

[Mamushka]

Looked up the crankshaft sensor and its $20
Talked to a mechanic there said he would put it in for $40

What do you guys think?

Thanks
Mike

As this is a very common problem I would absolutely do this as a first step. The other codes may be a result of the crankshaft sensor being bad (the cam sensor doesn't match the crank due to the bad crank sensor). I'm assuming that the check engine light has been on? After he clears the codes and changes the sensor watch for the light again, if it comes on pull the codes ASAP even if you get no more stalling.

[ratsflif]

I got the Jeep about 1 1/2 years ago from the Jeep dealer.  It had about 56k miles on it and now it currently has 80k.  All I have done besides oil changes is put in a new starter and battery.

[ratsflif]

I'll check them out, have to locate them first.....Told you I'm not a car guy

[ratsflif]

Ok here is where we are today.  I did some reading and looking at pics/diagrams and got a grip on where everything was.  After seeing how easy the crank position sensor is to replace I went and picked up a new for for $16 and got some new spark plugs.  I haven't had a chance to take is too far yet but it seems like it is running much better.  Here is a pick of the old sensor it was pretty gummed up:



And here is a pic of a few of the spark plugs compared to the new ones, they were in pretty rough shape and one had almost zero gap:



Hopefully this fixes the problem.....
Is there anything else I should look at in general to keep this thing running?  This is my daily driver.

[ratsflif]

Also, if I remove the battery cable will that reset my engine codes?

[ratsflif]

Ok, so its still fucked up.

Went to autozone after replacing the cps and plugs to run the codes and it came back with nothing (pass).
Drove around for 30 minutes and it stalled again, engine light came on.
Went back to autozone to run the codes again, stalled 3 times pulling into the parking lot, engine light is now off.
Ran codes and it comes back with nothing (pass) again....wtf

It will go 1 mile or 20 miles without stalling and in between those times it runs perfectly.  Last time it stalled I noticed the tach and speedo went dead and about 5 seconds later I lost the battery and gas gauge.

So it sounds like im loosing power to the computer or something, would that erase the codes?