Author Topic: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.  (Read 2842 times)

Offline Creature7

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I get that it is fun to compete and "flips has been a successful league here. But I am just not digging on the posts about Tampa not wanting to be involve with Orlando because of distance and so on. Sounds like regional gangs, lol. I am in Orlando and have friends in Tampa. Hell, I drive there a lot to hang out with them. I would personally feel a little alienated if I couldn't be a part of the league because of distance. Also, it sounds like these tournaments are half beer drinking little parties anyhow. So I am in for just the party portion itself.

I know there a more serious players that like to compete and that's cool, but a lot of us are just average players that enjoy being around others that have the same love and passion for the hobby as we do. So I guess my question is, "why aren't there more publicly announced party out there?" I would prefer a monthly party to a league anyhow which would have a strick schedule to adhere to. Sure, there are a few party that publicly get announce out there, usually a game release party like when Curly brought the Avengers to south Florida and his yearly Shop of Games party. Also,  Asylum parties and I had an Avatar release party a few years back and an after auction party. There are little personal invite parties, but they don't count.

"What I am saying, if I am really saying anything at all" (to quote Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man), is we just need to "UP" the social interaction by opening our homes and have a party. It would be cool to see more event invites on the board. I have know a lot of you guys for years but have never even seen your collection. For example, I know Baiter (Shawn), but I have never been to a pinball party at his house. I know there are small get together, but they are under the radar. Like I said, I am talking about "Publicly Announced Parties". There are enough of us to have something cool going on every week. You may not be able to attend them all due to schedule conflicts or location, but there would at least be option. There really seems to be more of this happening in South Florida for some reason (not just Flips). The last cool publicly announced party besides Curly's I have been to was Jeff Scott's. I had a blast. I don't have a lot to offer these days , but I would love to have people over soon if there is interest. Let me know and I will put a date down. Everyone seemed to enjoy themselves last time they were here and I didn't have a ton of games then either.

Also, if I was to host a party, I might ask for my close local buddies to bring over a pinball or two just for the party to have a little more to offer. Last time, Brian brought over the Hercules pinball and Donny brought an Ernie Digger. I am sure I could talk someone in to doing that again. Nothing crazy, just a pinball or two to set up in the living room.

Peace, Kelley
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 04:04:28 AM by Creature7 »
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Offline micksimmonds

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 07:06:13 AM »
I'm with Kelley on this totally :)
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Offline SpineyNorman

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 07:52:03 AM »
Cliques are bad, m'kay.  ;)
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Offline HammysHangout ( Hammy )

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 07:55:54 AM »
I am with Kelly on this as well.
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Offline micksimmonds

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 08:09:02 AM »
I think the other problem (well for me) is the lack of pinballs, a lot of people just do not want to attend if there are not xx number of pins, as they dont care for vids, and seems pinball > than hanging out, which is sad as for me its more about the passion of the overall hobby, which is why we did Gamewarp, to share that passion, love for coin op with others, get the games out there to play, not hidden away  ;D

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Offline murfe88

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 08:15:24 AM »
I will chime in here.

I used to have pinball taurnaments / partys at my house. At first it was fun and we would have a good turn out but then people would start complaining about the lighting in my gameroom or its not fair because these are Pauls games and he is always in the top 3. I eventually got tired of the bitching and BS and stopped having them.

Oh ya one guy brought is kid and the kid was in my living room lighting paper on fire with our candle lighters. My wife was pissed. The rest of the night I had to baby sit the kid so he didn't try and burn my house down.

I think the whole Orlando vs Tampa click thing is BS. It has nothing to do with me being in a click. I just dont want to drive almost two hours one way to play pinball. Then when I drink a few beers I have a two hour drive home.



« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 08:21:49 AM by murfe88 »
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Offline micksimmonds

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 08:17:46 AM »
Car Pooling helps  ;D

makes the drive easier, cheaper when split (if you split gas) good to hang out with friends, again thats just me, and this is coming from someone thats gonna drive to Texas for a Pinball Festival! :o
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Offline SpineyNorman

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 08:45:17 AM »
Car Pooling helps  ;D

makes the drive easier, cheaper when split (if you split gas) good to hang out with friends, again thats just me, and this is coming from someone thats gonna drive to Texas for a Pinball Festival! :o

Now that is what I call serious  ;D

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Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer?
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Offline micksimmonds

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 08:46:50 AM »
damn straight, 2500 miles roadtrip to play arcade games  ;)
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Offline micksimmonds

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 08:47:09 AM »
anyway enough of this, need to get thread back on track  :roll:
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Offline DK

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 08:48:02 AM »
I'd go to play pinball in Orlando, Tampa, S Florida, etc. Whoever it is, make an announcement and make it happen. I like pinball :)

Offline Baiter

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 08:51:45 AM »
Kelley, I've talked through this topic with others so I'll try to address many of your points. 

A league is the opposite of a high school clique, because everyone is actually invited.  For example I've been to a FLiPS event, but man it's 8+ hours of driving to attend.  That was Ron Donahue's place which is nice because he has a great collection with lot more room than most.  Khabbi mentioned a good point in the other thread, that many people feel they don't have the room or the number of games for the potential amount of people who show up for a large league... it's a good concern that will have to be trial and error, but Jeff regularly points out that small collections work fine.

Many FLiPS events have less than 10 in attendance, while others have much more.  What FLiPS offers is both a tournament and a social gathering all rolled up in one, so everyone is welcome to come and compete, talk or play.  In fact this is also the basis of the Pinball Asylum, which, for me, is pretty near the distance to get to Orlando, but I do it several times per year because it's just an awesome place, and much closer than any FLiPS event, that draws regular attendees from and wide.

I completely agree there were a lot more informal gatherings a few years ago, but those have completely dried up.  I've talked to people about it, and it seems the common reason is the sheer number of large "open" events available, so people have stopped opening up their houses... Game Warp, SPF, APE, Curly's Open house, and the 5 or so annual Pinball Asylum events make for quite a lot of significant tournament/social gathering combos.  For me, every one of these gatherings are long drives with a full day or a full weekend of commitment. 

In the end, it would be so much nicer to drive 30 minutes to a league to hang out with a few people on a regular basis.  A league is just an excuse to keep that going...  a way to get people to open their collections... to have some friendly competition (if attendees choose).... it doesn't require a tank of gas or blocking out an entire day... and if modeled after FLiPS, attendence doesn't have to be limited to locals because they are all one-off tournaments that don't have to be entered while there.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 08:53:27 AM by Baiter »
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Offline pinballcorpse

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 08:55:36 AM »
I hope nobody thinks FLiPS is exclusionary.

It is not. However, whether talking about FLiPS or any of the groups, leagues etc. there comes a level of practicality in numbers that has to be considered.

Let's take Ron's/Curly's wonderful efforts recently.  There were about 50 or so people there.  Ron has quite an adequate space for that, and so does Curly up north for his annual event.  Not everybody can accommodate that.

In FLiPS it has to be the case if you are a member, you are invited to ALL events with a FLiPS stamp.  Some of our hosts have small homes and condos.  So there has to be a cutoff and it cannot be come one, come all.

It is not because we don't want people around, but as soon as the point is reached where the host has to cutoff how many show up and picks and chooses guests, there will be hurt feelings.  It is easy to see: "I am in FLiPS, but I was not invited to FLiPS." There is a seriously flawed operating model there.

So the "rule" in FLiPS is simple.  If you host a FLiPS event you must invite the entire FLiPS group.

Of course hosts may invite any additional folks they want, but no regular FLiPS member can be excluded.

This is why we in FLiPS have to keep membership small.  If we increase the size, which is easy to do (you should see my contact list), then we decrease the amount of hosts that can have folks over since we are back to the how many can they invite problem.  We cannot have every FLiPS event being at Ron's since he has the largest space. That is not practical or fair on many levels.  Also with different hosts players get exposed to different games. Further once you get past a certain number of people, they break up into smaller groups anyway-that is human nature; it is not a high school thing.

Moreover, FLiPS has not been exclusionary to guests. In fact many people from the Village and even out of state who are not in the tri-county area have been to a variety of FLiPS events. It all boils down to space. But just because a person was guest at one event, does not give them an invitation to every event. Hosts often extend supplemental invites when they can.

And I will reiterate, FLiPS is not a "league".  Yes, we compete, but we have fun drink beer, drink Dew, hangout etc.

I want to see other groups in Florida develop.  I don't consider other parts of the state rivals, but rather an extention and cohesion of a growing Florida pinball scene. I have always tried to help someone with a pinball question.  I know a lot of people in the state and I appreciate people calling me and emailing me with questions on how to start a group or what FLiPS does. There is nothing exclusive to what we do.

In short, I look at the growth of new clubs and organizations as a good thing for Florida pinball, not an Us vs. Them situation.

Jeff

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Offline Ron Donohue

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 09:04:46 AM »
I have not really been following the "clique" conversation to which Kelley is referring, but I do have some thoughts on events.   

"On Soapbox"

First, virtually all of the events at my place are widely posted and the invitations are public.  I am in a fortunate situation where I have plenty of parking, enough games for folks to play and a game room which is separate from my home so that my family is not impacted as much.  Not everyone has the space or a situation that allows an open invitation.  In the case of FliPS, we play in some pretty tight quarters from time to time, but we are also conscious of the space limitations in deciding whether to expand beyond the normal "list" of players.  It goes without saying that those decisions are made by the individual hosts based on their knowledge of their situation.  So, part of our system relies on people being respectful of the owner (and the owner's family)  and the space and games that are offered.

To the best of my knowledge, we have not had anyone abuse the space, games or opportunity that was offered.   This may be luck, or it may be the result of making expectations very clear.  I do know that when I am invited into someone's home, I am very conscious of the trust that is inherent in being invited into someone's home, and I try my best to merit that trust. 

As for competition, there is considerable variation.  At FLiPs, we have some events where the competition takes up much of the time and folks play hard to win.  Some tournaments are fairly standard, while others are pretty loose.  In my case, if I do a tournament, I typically try to set it up so that folks have to play different types and eras of games.  On other occasions, there is no tournaments and we just get together and play some pinball and shoot the breeze.   I realize that there may be a perception out there that FLiPs is all about hardcore competition, but it really is not.  While the competition is important to some folks, it is not all that important to others.  There is no doubt in my mind that the opportunity to hang out with fellow pinball folks and shoot the breeze is the top draw for most players.   
 
 I know that I attended one of Kelley's events (Avatar) and it was a great time, even though there was no tournament or competition planned.  At the Asylum, I have been there for an open play day, and I have been there for tournaments.  To me, there is no real difference in how much fun I have, because that is about the people first and the pinball second.   So, in making decisions about hosting an event, the key is to know the people and what they want.  If you don't know them, then have a free for all event and get to know them a little better.  FLiPs started with a mix of events until we figured out what worked for the group.   But, please remember that just as the host has a responsibility to their guests, the guests have a responsibility to the host, to act appropriately and follow the house rules.

Off Soapbox,

Ron

Offline Baiter

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Re: Leagues are starting to sound like social clicks in High School.
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 09:25:51 AM »
I agree with Jeff, maybe "league" is not the appropriate term... that implies season-long competition and commitment culminating in a champion.  Unfortunately no other Florida locale outside of FLiPS has a cool acronym to use in its place :)
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